They take away your freedom to save you

[Peter_Puget]

"It requires that everybody be covered. It requires that everybody get preventive care," he told a crowd sitting in lawn chairs in front of the Cedar County Courthouse. "If you are going to be in the system, you can't choose not to go to the doctor for 20 years. You have to go in and be checked and make sure that you are OK."

 

He noted, for example, that women would be required to have regular mammograms in an effort to find and treat "the first trace of problem." Edwards and his wife, Elizabeth, announced earlier this year that her breast cancer had returned and spread.

He'll have you walking in line

 

Oddly here too...when east becomes west.

 

 

[olyclimber]

Peter, I don't know whether to laugh or cry. What does this have to do with the War on Freedom....errr...Terror?

[Peter_Puget]

I'm fighting the war against fascism! Where:

The law is reduced to a technical instrument for the execution of certain political objectives

Franz Neumann "Behemoth: The strucutre and Practice of National Socialism" 1966 "The Change in the Function of the Law in Modern Society" The Democratic and Authoritarian State 1957

 

Dont make me go to my bookcase again!

Edited September 5, 2007 by Peter_Puget

[cj001f]

where is the penguin wearing sunglasses?

[olyclimber]

first they started with making you wear seatbelts, next they came for the boobs....slowly the fascists wrestled power from the fascists that were in power.

[olyclimber]

i say gitmo for those that refuse to brush their teeth

[Peter_Puget]

"Fascism in America will be the form of law without its consent" Stanlet Aronowitz "Law, the Breakdown of Order and Revolution"

 

I warned you!

[Peter_Puget]

"..modern law has become a series of instructions to administrators rather than a series of commands to citizens."

Theoroe Lowi The End of Liberalism 1969

[Peter_Puget]

Defining fascism => "rule by an elite exercising paternal control...over government and people" Michael Reagan Managed Economy 1963

 

[cj001f]

oh this modern world

[olyclimber]

well, if elected he has a mandate. just like our current president has a mandate to bankrupt the nation,abandon diplomacy, and jail US citizens indefinitely without trial. We all voted for him, pleading for him to do this. Democracy is a beautiful thing.

[Peter_Puget]

Summary:

"Small constituencies" formerly private, autonomous voluntary and with limited goals have extended their claims until they have captured formal segments of state power and become private governments themselves. They build their own power but loose the very qualities that once made them legitimate grant mcconnnell Private Power & American Democracy 1966

[Peter_Puget]

I'm like JayB only shorter quotes!

[Peter_Puget]

I'm like JayB only shorter quotes!

[olyclimber]

1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism: Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common themes in expressing this nationalism. It was usually coupled with a suspicion of things foreign that often bordered on xenophobia. 1. To people who feel deprived of a clear social identity, Ur-Fascism says that their only privilege is the most common one, to be born in the same country: This is the origin of nationalism. 1. There may or may not be a single charismatic leader in charge of the government, i.e., a "dictator".

2. Government establishes and enforces the rules of "right" thinking, "right" action, and "right" religious devotion.

2. Disdain for the importance of human rights: Through clever use of propaganda, the population was brought to accept these human rights abuses by marginalizing, even demonizing, those being targeted. When abuse was egregious, the tactic was to use secrecy, denial, and disinformation. 2. For Ur-Fascism there is no struggle for life but, rather, life is lived for struggle: Since enemies have to be defeated, there must be a final battle, after which the movement will have control of the world. But such "final solutions" implies a further era of peace, a Golden Age 3. There is no constitution recognized by all political forces as having an authority beyond that stated by the government in power, to which that government is subject. The rule of men, not law, is supreme.

4. Official or unofficial force, internal terror, and routine torture of captured opponents are major means of government control.

3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause: The most significant common thread among these regimes was the use of scapegoating as a means to divert the people’s attention from other problems, to shift blame for failures, and to channel frustration in controlled directions. 3. The followers must feel humiliated by their enemies: by shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak. 5.The fascist takeover of the government of a major power always leads to foreign war, sooner or later.

4. Ur-Fascism derives from individual or social frustration: one of the most typical features of the historical fascism was the appeal to a frustrated middle class

4. The supremacy of the military/avid militarism: Ruling elites always identified closely with the military and the industrial infrastructure that supported it. A disproportionate share of national resources was allocated to the military, even when domestic needs were acute 5. Elitism is a typical insofar as it is fundamentally aristocratic, and aristocratic and militaristic elitism cruelly implies contempt for the weak.

6. Everybody is educated to become a hero. The Ur-Fascist hero craves heroic death, advertised as the best reward for a heroic life.

5. Rampant sexism: Beyond the simple fact that the political elite and the national culture were male-dominated, these regimes inevitably viewed women as second-class citizens. They were adamantly anti-abortion and also homophobic. 7. The fascist transfers his will to sexual matters: Implying both disdain for women and intolerance and condemnation of nonstandard sexual habits, from chastity to homosexuality). 6. Racism, homophobia, misogyny, and national chauvinism are major factors in national politics and policy-making.

 

 

 

 

8. Disagreement is a sign of diversity. Thus Ur-Fascism is racist by definition.

6. A controlled mass media: Methods included the control of licensing and access to resources, economic pressure, appeals to patriotism, and implied threats. The leaders of the mass media were often politically compatible with the power elite. 9. Ur-Fascism speaks Newspeak: All the Nazi or Fascist schoolbooks made use of an impoverished vocabulary, and an elementary syntax, in order to limit the instruments for complex and critical reasoning. 7. All communications media are government-owned or otherwise government-controlled.

7. Obsession with national security: It was usually an instrument of oppression, operating in secret and beyond any constraints. Its actions were justified under the rubric of protecting “national security,” and questioning its activities was portrayed as unpatriotic or even treasonous. 10. The critical spirit makes distinctions, and to distinguish is a sign of modernism: disagreement is treason. 8. Built as it on terror, repression, and an ultimately fictional/delusional representation of historical, political, and economic reality, fascism is inherently unstable and always carries with it the seeds of its own destruction. To date, such seeds have always sprouted in a relatively short period of time.

8. Religion and ruling elite tied together: . Propaganda kept up the illusion that the ruling elites were defenders of the faith and opponents of the “godless.” A perception was manufactured that opposing the power elite was tantamount to an attack on religion. 11. The first feature of Ur-Fascism is the cult of tradition: there can be no advancement of learning. Truth already has been spelled out once and for all, and we can only keep interpreting its obscure message. 9. There are few or no employee rights or protections, including the right of workers to bargain collectively. Only government approved labor unions or associations are permitted to exist, and that approval may be removed at any time, without prior notice.

9. Power of corporations protected: Members of the economic elite were often pampered by the political elite to ensure a continued mutuality of interests, especially in the repression of “have-not” citizens. 12. Ur-Fascism is based upon a selective populism, a qualitative populism, one might say: In a democracy, the citizens have individual rights, but the citizens in their entirety have a political impact only from a quantitative point of view -- one follows the decisions of the majority. For Ur-Fascism, however, individuals as individuals have no rights, and the People is conceived as a quality, a monolithic entity expressing the Common Will. Since no large quantity of human beings can have a common will, the Leader pretends to be their interpreter.

10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated: Since organized labor was seen as the one power center that could challenge the political hegemony of the ruling elite and its corporate allies, it was inevitably crushed or made powerless. 10. The economy is based on capitalism, with a tight central control of the distribution of resources among the producers, and strict limitations on the free market for labor.

11. Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts: Universities were tightly controlled; politically unreliable faculty harassed or eliminated. Unorthodox ideas or expressions of dissent were strongly attacked, silenced, or crushed. To these regimes, art and literature should serve the national interest or they had no right to exist. 13. Traditionalism implies the rejection of modernism: The rejection of the modern world was disguised as a rebuttal of the capitalistic way of life. The Enlightenment, the Age of Reason, is seen as the beginning of modern depravity. In this sense Ur-Fascism can be defined as irrationalism. 11. All entertainment, music, art, and organized sport is controlled by the government.

12. Obsession with crime and punishment: Most of these regimes maintained Draconian systems of criminal justice with huge prison populations. The police were often glorified and had almost unchecked power, leading to rampant abuse. 12. There is no recognition of inherent personal rights. Only the government can grant "rights". Any "rights" granted by the government may be diminished or removed by it from any individual or group at any time without prior notice, explanation, or judicial review. Thus, there is no presumed freedom of speech, press, religion, or even belief, automatically accompanying citizenship. There are no inherent or presumed protections against any violations of personal liberty committed by law-enforcement or other government agencies.

13. Rampant cronyism and corruption: Those in business circles and close to the power elite often used their position to enrich themselves. This corruption worked both ways; the power elite would receive financial gifts and property from the economic elite, who in turn would gain the benefit of government favoritism. 14. Irrationalism also depends on the cult of action for action's sake: Action being beautiful in itself, it must be taken before, or without, reflection.

 

 

 

 

14. Fraudulent elections: When actual elections with candidates were held, they would usually be perverted by the power elite to get the desired result. Common methods included maintaining control of the election machinery, intimidating and disenfranchising opposition voters, destroying or disallowing legal votes, and, as a last resort, turning to a judiciary beholden to the power elite. Ur-Fascism is based upon a selective populism, a qualitative populism, one might say: In a democracy, the citizens have individual rights, but the citizens in their entirety have a political impact only from a quantitative point of view -- one follows the decisions of the majority. For Ur-Fascism, however, individuals as individuals have no rights, and the People is conceived as a quality, a monolithic entity expressing the Common Will. Since no large quantity of human beings can have a common will, the Leader pretends to be their interpreter. 13. There is complete executive branch control of government policy and action. There is no independent judicial or legislative branch of government.

14. There is only one political party, and no mass organizations of any kind other than those approved by the government are permitted.

 

[olyclimber]

 

[tvashtarkatena]

OMG! One more hypothetical, nonexistent threat made up by some coocoo clock on the interwebs after all other arguments against universal health care have been long exhausted. Forget Iraq, forget the stock market crash, forget global warming...WE MUST JOIN TOGETHER AND FIGHT THE NEW THREAT OF MEDICAL TYRANNY! This isn't just another case of the government sticking it too us, THIS IS THE GOVERNMENT STICKING THEIR FINGERS UP OUR ASSES! THANK YOU PETER FOR ONCE AGAIN MAKING US AWARE OF A THREAT WE NEVER EVEN DREAMED COULD EXIST! WE ALL SLEEP BETTER KNOWING THAT PEOPLE LIKE YOU ARE EVER VIGILANT!

Edited September 5, 2007 by tvashtarkatena

[Peter_Puget]

Another fine government program.......

 

 

[KaskadskyjKozak]

 

Does he REQUIRE that lardasses go on a reasonable diet and exercise too? That would be the best preventative care.

 

[No. 13 Baby]

Does he REQUIRE that lardasses go on a reasonable diet and exercise too? That would be the best preventative care.

 

A real conservative would use the proper word "preventive" - it conserves two letters.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Does he REQUIRE that lardasses go on a reasonable diet and exercise too? That would be the best preventative care.

 

A real conservative would use the proper word "preventive" - it conserves two letters.

 

I'm a libertarian. Now go lick sack.

[No. 13 Baby]

Oh great - another Republican who wants to smoke dope and not pay taxes.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Oh great - another Republican who wants to smoke dope and not pay taxes.

 

I'm not a Republican, you dip shit. As I said above.

[No. 13 Baby]

Classic... you even have the typical Republican aversion to humor!

 

Everybody knows a "libertarian" is merely a Republican who wants to smoke dope and not pay any taxes. Ask your mom to explain.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Classic... you even have the typical Republican aversion to humor!

 

Everybody knows a "libertarian" is merely a Republican who wants to smoke dope and not pay any taxes. Ask your mom to explain.

 

again with the oversimplifications - you are a classic - moron, that is. I'm not adverse to reasonable levels of taxation (like the current levels, for example), but would like to see better ROI on what we spend our money on - that goes across the board. I believe in limited gov't not NO gov't as the Libertarian Party seems to advocate in the US (they are way too extreme). And I don't want to smoke pot, although I don't mind letting people smoke it who want to.