mwills Posted June 18, 2002 Posted June 18, 2002 has anyone out there been fortunate enough to try the new line ice tools from grivel (specifically the alp wing or light wing)? grivel product homepage the look pretty nice - good eye candy for sure maybe if we are lucky barrabes will have them soon....... matt Quote
IceIceBaby Posted June 18, 2002 Posted June 18, 2002 Yo, look like someone did a replica of the Rage or the Axar. the thing I don’t understand is, the full rubber shaft …what is wrong with this people…more gadgets to get in the way… K.I.S.S.(not, Gene Simmon, Vinnie Vincent, Eric Carr etc)… everyone should know that [ 06-18-2002, 04:26 PM: Message edited by: IceIceBaby ] Quote
mwills Posted June 19, 2002 Author Posted June 19, 2002 copy of the rage's..... yeah, the shape is similar but who isn't using that geometry these days. i'm glad grivel finally went these designs - something in between the rambos and machines. where does it say the shafts are rubberized? it looks like the light wing may be rubberized, but i'm not sure. if they are, i think it makes sense: you don't have to worry about the grip delaminating from repeated plunges (x-15). it also acts as a shock absorber - when clearing a bulge. perhaps if the rages had rubberized shafts, they would not be snapping. Quote
IceIceBaby Posted June 19, 2002 Posted June 19, 2002 I have the Rage and they not snapping…they had only few that did (the 4911 stamp)…which mine is not…in any event everyone in the industry dose recall one time or the other Back to the topic, My mistake …I miss read the Alp Wing description (it is only the grip…not full shaft) which make it OK in my book… In regard to the Light Wing I can't tell what is the shaft made out of …I hope aluminum… Any who…they looking good as long as they don’t have a rubberized shaft, which make for hard plunge in the snow, harder to move the hand to chock the tool or to go on top of it. And the most annoying is, the sliding shaft collar on the leash always get stuck to the rubber when changing hand position BTW I also own the Rambo (silver) which is my best alpine tools... [ 06-19-2002, 09:52 AM: Message edited by: IceIceBaby ] Quote
fishstick Posted June 19, 2002 Posted June 19, 2002 I've fondled a pair of tech wings, but it'll be probably be a few weeks before I get to run'em outside. Very nice. They seem to be a large step forward beyond the machine, which in my mind felt contrived and sort of third world. The wings are better thought out and more conceptual designed. The wrist leash might just be the new industry standard. The bigger news regarding grivel products is the G14 crampon. Without a doubt the best designed hard alpine crampon I've ever seen. In regards to recalled Rages …Let's just say someone (BD knows who) deserves an incredibly swift kick in the nuts over that one. GB Quote
Dru Posted June 19, 2002 Posted June 19, 2002 So Gord does that mean you are giving up on Simond or what? Quote
fishstick Posted June 19, 2002 Posted June 19, 2002 Dru, It's a question of economics and taste. The Piranhas will remain my choice of all round sticks until somebody can do a better job. For pure water ice, I've decided shaft clearance is a good thing. Got some mileage on rages late season and liked them. I plan on trying Naja Cups, the Tech Wings and would like to get a solid handle on the Scuds to see how they all compare. Most interested in the Cups. Rages will probably win for waterfalls simply because they don't require further economic output. GB Quote
thelawgoddess Posted June 19, 2002 Posted June 19, 2002 quote: Originally posted by fishstick: I've fondled a pair of tech wings, [...] You can fondle the Light Wings at Pro Mountain Sports. In fact, I was just informed that one will be available as a demo tool! Quote
Jedi Posted June 19, 2002 Posted June 19, 2002 Do keep us up to date on the axes and leashes. I am pondering a new set of crampons. Switchblades have to go. Need something to help me compensate for my lack of ability and strength . I have been eyeballing a set of M10's on sale right now. I have to admit that I do not like CM's crampon straps as they do loosen throughout the day. Have not tried the one's on the M 10's Unsure about the Bionics because BD has not recalled them, yet. Robocomps look nice and I have heard great things about their "stickyness" ice. But their long secondary points sound like they make mixed/rock climbing not as enjoyable as it could be. Any experiences with these crampons guys. Jedi Quote
Dru Posted June 19, 2002 Posted June 19, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Jedi: Do keep us up to date on the axes and leashes. I am pondering a new set of crampons. Switchblades have to go. Need something to help me compensate for my lack of ability and strength . I have been eyeballing a set of M10's on sale right now. I have to admit that I do not like CM's crampon straps as they do loosen throughout the day. Have not tried the one's on the M 10's Unsure about the Bionics because BD has not recalled them, yet. Robocomps look nice and I have heard great things about their "stickyness" ice. But their long secondary points sound like they make mixed/rock climbing not as enjoyable as it could be. Any experiences with these crampons guys. Jedi m10's - have never had the straps loosen and they are noticeably Stickier than the Grade 8s. have never had gr 8 antibotte loosen either. however the current m10 antibotte SUCKS!!!! for waterfall ice get the Quark.... unless you plan to do lots of dry tooling. it has the most clearance of any of them and damn it is good. all the weight in the head, not like the rage with the stupid heavy shaft. i found drytooling with it fine but I heard that it is a bit skatier on micro tiny edges than some of the others. i guess i wasnt climbing hard enough...m5? that said the new air tech wing or whatever might be good. [ 06-19-2002, 01:44 PM: Message edited by: Dru ] Quote
IceIceBaby Posted June 19, 2002 Posted June 19, 2002 Wrong about the M-10 the only way I can describe this crampons is Phenomenal try them and you will see. About the Rage, same goes here Phenomenal. IMHO the best tool out here …Yeah better then the Cobra too (use to own them …Got rid of them like a bad habit) But then again what do I know…see for yourself… enough said… I have the Naja too very nice tool like them …Love my Rage (I also have the Piranha too…don’t ask…) And yes, I do have the Rambo too And probably will get the Axar’s when opportunity present it self Lets not start about crampon…(but you know my favorite already) [ 06-19-2002, 04:38 PM: Message edited by: IceIceBaby ] Quote
Cpt.Caveman Posted June 19, 2002 Posted June 19, 2002 I think the machine's are beyond 3rd world. I would also use the new grivel tools. Fishneck is not the expert although I read his opinions and take the feedback I think Grivel makes the best tools on the market. I bet the new tools take the old picks unlike BD generation changes! Hey Pubic what do you think about tools? Oh I forgot you dont ice climb You are the Tool! I think that the competition is great- I don't like any tool BD makes except the rage. Bout the same thing as a machine... I think 3rd world then I think immediatley BD Cobra to be honest. Weighs a little but costs a lot. No major curve nada.. Wide grip etc... [ 06-19-2002, 04:45 PM: Message edited by: Cpt.Caveman ] Quote
JayB Posted June 20, 2002 Posted June 20, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Jedi: Robocomps look nice and I have heard great things about their "stickyness" ice. But their long secondary points sound like they make mixed/rock climbing not as enjoyable as it could be. Any experiences with these crampons guys. Jedi Lots of experience with the Rambocomps last year, but none of it on the mixed stuff. I did see a whole crew of guys using them on Secret Probation (or Secret Prohbition or something like that)(M4 or 5 of something) at Vail and didn't hear any complaining. If nothing else, the Grivel's come with a pretty burly forged mono-point that should last for a while if you're into the mixed thing. On pure ice, they're the shiznit. The long secondardy points work their magic here, readily engaging the ice and forming a nice stable tripod right off the bat. The absurdly recessed secondary points on my Switchblades more or less ruled out dropping your heel to engage the secondary points, as you had to drop your heel so low that your front-points were about to blow by the time the secondaries touched the ice. Anyhow, the Grivel's also seemed to do awfully well in extremely convoluted or chandeliered ice as the displacement was minimal. I also like the fact that the top of the mono flares out at the top - made me quite a bit less concerned about shearing. And lastly, the set of prongs under the ball of your foot that faces rearward made it possible to cop flat-footed stances on downward-sloping bulges and other features with much less anxiety. Grivel had better send me a sticker or something for this testimonial.... Also - just got a pair of the Light Machines from Barrabes about a month ago as I was worried that they would stop shipping them to the US before the next season got underway. Ray or anyone else who uses them - any trouble adjusting your swing to the next angle? If so, how long until you got it dialed in? Thanks in advance for any info... Quote
Jedi Posted June 20, 2002 Posted June 20, 2002 Anyone got the number for Grivel in Salt Lake? Jedi Quote
JayB Posted June 20, 2002 Posted June 20, 2002 Grivel USA 1435, South State Street Evolution Ski Complex SLC - UTAH 84115 USA Phone: ++1.801.463.7996 Quote
Cpt.Caveman Posted June 20, 2002 Posted June 20, 2002 Jay it took me one pitch until I was finding the swing. I love em on the steeps and especially topping out and on bulges. Very good hooking machines Quote
mwills Posted June 20, 2002 Author Posted June 20, 2002 quote: The bigger news regarding grivel products is the G14 crampon. Without a doubt the best designed hard alpine crampon I've ever seen. i'm curious as to why you think this - please elaborate . jayb - do you need a set of mixte (mixed) picks for those new light machines? i have two that have not been used and would be willing to sell cheap . while they may not seem as "surgical" as the cascade picks, you won't have to worry about breaking one. Also, I have a set of rambocomps that i would be willing to part with. if interested name a price. Quote
fishstick Posted June 20, 2002 Posted June 20, 2002 Re: My feeling that G-14s might be the hard alpine crampon to own. Given that I haven't used G-14's yet, all of this is theoretical. I totally admit to personal bias but understand my opinions are mileage based, formed in no small part by the fact that I've had the privilege of owning or using many models, each over a wide variety of terrain. I'm not claiming to be an expert on the subject or a brilliant climber; I just keep the microprocessor receiving input when I grovel my way up a route. I like horizontal rails. The majority of units I've owned have had vertical rails, but apart from stiffening the structure, they create unwanted and useless height under the boot. It's like walking on small stilts. I can't move as confidently or as quickly on frenchable terrain, especially facing outwards down-climbing ice. The unwanted height associated with vertical rails also compromise the ability to get a stable french position when firing in gear. I like crampons with shortish points. Longer points create the stilt problem above, plus they tend to vibrate and flex more when used on ice. G-14's have mildly ribbed side points that seem to be stiffer (and shorter) than sabre tooths. For the majority of terrain, I prefer horizontal front points (which G-14's don't have). They work well in snow and seem more secure in unconsolidated ice. I think grade 2 through easy grade 4 favors vertical front points because the ice tends to be very consolidated, with little air, hence it's harder. Grade 5 and harder ice is often better textured and offers amazing platforms for horizontal points. Bulletproof alpine ice tends to be brutally hard, very consolidated, possibly with a bit of gravel mixed in, and lacks the texture of hard waterfalls. For pure drytooling I think horizontal or mono is best, but for pure mixed (thin ice, bonded snow or frost, frozen turf, unbonded snow-possibly while wearing a medium heavy pack) I think so much brutal scrapping and kicking the wrong medium goes on, that forged points look pretty good. The negative side of that argument is that I tend to break/wear the bottom of the frontpoint tip off on vertical points, creating a rounded edge that skates easily on rock. Still, there's a certain confidence in knowing forged points are brutally strong and replaceable. G-!4s have chiseled points under the arch. I hate filing those points and chiseling makes it easier. The downside of G-14s is that they're going to ball-up under the forefoot. In the past however, I've found Grivel anti-bots to be very, very durable. I haven't found that to be the case with the competition. So at this point somebody is probably asking why not Bionics? The front points look better on G-14s and Grivel doesn't have a history of crampon problems. The bottom line is that G-14's look dead simple but brutally strong and effective. The front points are closer together than rambos (good), they convert to monos (good), are compact to carry (good)… Pretty wordy eh? GB Quote
Cpt.Caveman Posted June 20, 2002 Posted June 20, 2002 GB summing up the astriophysics of crampons folks Quote
JayB Posted June 21, 2002 Posted June 21, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Cpt.Caveman: Jay it took me one pitch until I was finding the swing. I love em on the steeps and especially topping out and on bulges. Very good hooking machines That's what I wanted to hear! My prophets were solid tools, but when it came to bulges, hook-fests, or topping out the straight shaft was a drag. I tried to commit myself to the improve yourself not your tools philosophy for a while, but after taking it for a test drive I've decided that I'll buy any edge that I can afford. Quote
Cpt.Caveman Posted June 21, 2002 Posted June 21, 2002 I just looked at some of those new grivel tools. Look very quality to me. Really light and a new cool leash. They must have been reading our posts here Quote
JayB Posted June 21, 2002 Posted June 21, 2002 quote: Originally posted by mwills: jayb - do you need a set of mixte (mixed) picks for those new light machines? i have two that have not been used and would be willing to sell cheap : Hey - thanks for asking. If you're not in a hurry to unload them I might be interested. I have taken about 4 months off from work after moving out here and am just about to the plasma donation stage at this point, but let me know how much you'd like for them anyhow. [ 06-20-2002, 08:29 PM: Message edited by: JayB ] Quote
Jedi Posted June 21, 2002 Posted June 21, 2002 I talked to a fella at Grivel and asked him about the G-14. I'll try to remember some of the things he said (We got side tracked talking about the Ruth Gorge). Anyway, he said they will have a North American website up and running in a couple months with a little more detail descriptions of the crampons (and other things) than present world wide website. The G-14 should tackle 85% of what you will run into. Great all-around crampon for steep terrain and alpine conditions. But it is not going to preform as well as the Rambo's or Rambocomps on steep waterfall ice. Sounds honest to me as no crampon is going to cover all terrain and be the optimum performer in every catagory. From the description given to me, it just sounds like it is an improvement over some other all around performers. The front points: The mono is offset and and the points are interchangable. I mean that it is not like my Switchblades where you have a set of dual points and a mono point. But 2 points will cover both set ups. The fella still recommended the Rambo & Rambocomp for vertical waterfall & more difficlt mixed and the G12 for things that have more snow as the horizontal points on the G12's do better at not shearing in snow. Hope I got all the info right but I am not making any promises that I did not understand something Jedi [ 06-21-2002, 01:24 PM: Message edited by: Jedi ] Quote
Cpt.Caveman Posted June 21, 2002 Posted June 21, 2002 I saw these crampooons yesterday. I am sure they work fine in alpine or waterfall ice. Quote
Jedi Posted June 22, 2002 Posted June 22, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Cpt.Caveman: ... I am sure they work fine in alpine or waterfall ice. Yeah, Mark did do they would not climb waterfall and alpine well. These crampons are made to climb all chilly mediums well. I think he was saying, that the Rambos & Rambocomps will climb steep & overhanging ice & a smiggen better. But the Rambos and Rambocomps would not work as well as the G-14's in other places. He said the ball up less than the Rambo's & Comp's also with their lower profile. Then again, I would not want to be climbing Alaskan bulletproof, 75 degree ice on a 1200' ice couloir in my Charlet Moser Black Ice crampons. I would rather have something like the G-14's. But if I am roadside cragging and planning on groveling my way small up some WI4+. I think I would rather have something like the Rambocomp's or M-10's. Either way, it should be an improvement over the Swithblades. Jedi Quote
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