Big Wall

[archenemy]

At least half the population likes dick.

 

No one likes chut.

[kevbone]

I'm a dick because I don't have the patience to be nice to dumbasses. Sorry.

 

A devil's advocate takes a position and discusses it. You succeed one dumb question with another. It's hardly the same thing.

 

Thanks for playing. go back to your coloring book.

 

Didnt your teacher ever teach you there is no such thing as a dumb question?

[archenemy]

shouldn't this be in spray?

 

 

 

 

 

sorry, I just couldn't resist.

[counterfeitfake]

Teachers are almost as full of shit as you are.

[kevbone]

It was a good discussion until some folks got on here and attacked me for my views, instead of adding to the discussion…..so this was a good informative discussion but the last ten posts have been spray.

[Raindawg]

Didn't your teacher ever teach you there is no such thing as a dumb question?

 

Yes, there are lots of DUMB questions. Lots and lots and then some!

 

That bit about "no such thing as a dumb question" is one of the great false and misleading American educational clichés that goes right near the top of the list along with "you can be anything you want!". If that were the case, there'd be about 20 million astronauts, zoo-keepers and professional NFL quarterbacks.

If your teacher told you either of those things, they're just trying to make you feel good, or fill up the dead-air in the classroom with some noise...or they're just suckers and believe that crap themselves.

 

[high_on_rock]

Put me down as a sucker. While I don't agree that you can be anything you want, I do believe that you can be anything you are willing to work for.

 

While there may be dumb rhetorical questions, any true question is never dumb.

 

Hang in there Kev, ignore the haters.

 

Eric

 

[kevbone]

I do believe that you can be anything you are willing to work for.

 

While there may be dumb rhetorical questions, any true question is never dumb.

 

ignore the haters.

 

I do ignore the haters.....you pretty much sumed that up for me....

 

 

Rain.....I love sippy cups.....

[sk]

It was a good discussion until some folks got on here and attacked me for my views, instead of adding to the discussion…..so this was a good informative discussion but the last ten posts have been spray.

 

i believe you started the attacking there my brutha...

 

it is my opinion that the Huber brothers Speed Climb some really fucking big walls. they however do NOT Big Wall Climb.

 

again just my opinion and i will continue to state if you like. you can not prove an opinion wrong. you might be able to convince me to change my mind, but you would have to work really hard at it.

[Alpinfox]

 

Can someone please show me where I can buy one of these. I need it for my next big wall adventure. TIA :tup:

 

You can get them HERE

 

Might wanna get one of THESE while you are at it.

[kevbone]

i believe you started the attacking there my brutha...

 

I disagree……go back and check it out. Some dude started spouted off against me personally instead of added to the discussion.

 

 

it is my opinion that the Huber brothers Speed Climb some really fucking big walls. they however do NOT Big Wall Climb.

 

I don’t know about that……the certainly big wall climb…..they just do it quicker……

 

again just my opinion and i will continue to state if you like. you can not prove an opinion wrong. you might be able to convince me to change my mind, but you would have to work really hard at it.

 

I would never try to change your opinion. By the way……thanks for sharing.

 

Kev.

 

[G-spotter]

There is a 15km high cliff on a moon of Saturn.

By that scale, most of the walls on Earth are not so big.

[sk]

There is a 15km high cliff on a moon of Saturn.

By that scale, most of the walls on Earth are not so big.

 

what do you think? is it climbable??? i would go to space for that

[Cobra_Commander]

you already are in space

[sk]

you already are in space

 

thats a really good point.

[ScottP]

Not a definition (I believe you all have shown that's an impossibility), but below is how a couple of the experts weigh in...

John Middendorf says (from BigWalls.net):

"Big wall climbs are all about getting out in the wilderness and spending multiple days and nights on the largest rock faces in the world....Climbing all day on technical rock for many successive days, dealing with a multitude of physical and mental challenges, setting up belays and bivouacs, and finally reaching the summit makes for an unforgettable experience....Big-wall climbs are, among other things, technological achievements. The management of more items than contained in a small mountain shop can be a considerable task in itself....Big walls are gear intensive:

 

Main Equipment

 

Single or Double Portaledge (for images see my portfolio)

Haulbags

Ropes (2-3)

Hauling Pulley

Stuff Sacks for food and gear organization

Water Bottles (2 liter soda bottles)

First Aid Kit (cloth tape, Neosporin, aspirin, etc.)

Repair Kit (Duct tape, Speedy Stitcher, etc.)

Food

 

Rack

 

2-3 Sets of camming devices

2-3 sets of wired stoppers

2-3 sets of small brass-nuts

80 carabiners

Hook selection (2 to 5 of the standard types)

Copperhead selection (10-25)

Pitons (5-10 knifeblades, 10-20 horizontals, 15-25 angles)

3 to 5 Birdbeaks

Tie-offs and runners

Bolt Kit (optional)"

 

Personal Wall Gear (per climber)

 

Harness

Aiders

Jumars

Hammer & holster

Headlamp

Rain gear

Wall-boots

Kneepads and fingerless gloves

Wall spoon and Swiss army knife

Sleeping bag and ensolite

 

Russ Walling says (from FishProducts.com):

"What does it take to get 3 guys, a sheep, some booze, and 230lbs. of gear to the top of (a big wall) in under a week?

Wall climbing is rarely about big skill and great shape. This is another plus in your favor. Wall climbing is systems and tenacity. With a basic knowledge of how to free climb, a good idea of how moving within the aid system works, and a bulldog determination to reach the summit, you will. So, in the most basic terms, here's what I recommend for somebody thinking about doing a first wall.

 

1. Be in good shape, especially in the cardiovascular area. Wall climbing is less about climbing and more about being able to bust your hump all day long. Most wall days are about 12 hours of toil. It is a lot like working on a shipping dock, except there is no floor.

 

2. Have strong legs. Hauling and Jumaring is just like going up flights of stairs. If you get a leg shake carrying in the groceries at home, do some leg work. Any good program of bike riding, talus hiking, or gym work will help you out in this area.

 

3. Have strong hands and forearms. Hanging on Jumars all day will bake you. Better technique will help you here, but on your first wall you will be gripping these units so tight that if the handles were coal, they might turn into diamonds. Cramping is also a big problem here. Always try to hang on your Jumars from the daisy chain to your waist rather than your hands and arms. A smooth technique here will save you tons of grief in the form of sore hands, cramps, and power failure.

 

4. Be confident. Break the wall down into small chunks rather than looking at it as a huge ordeal. Plan out your bivies and then hit the marks. Each day is a new day, and even if you rolled into the bivy at midnight the previous night, hit your mark today and then keep going. Think of each day as a mini wall. These little victories will keep you going.

 

5. Remember, it is supposed to be fun. Don't pick a partner that is an anus. The pressure that is put on any team will bring weird vibes and outright yelling to the surface. There is an old adage that "put a man on a wall and you'll see what kind of man you've got". Very true. Maintain an even keel. Everyone up there is trying to do their best. Berating your partner is a fools game. Work together as a team, not some macho solo act. You ain't Patton."

[kevbone]

Well that pretty much sums it up....thanks!

[pink_chalk]

dido!

[Dechristo]

"dido"?

[ken4ord]

.....would you think IB is a big wall? Its like 3000 feet of climbing.

 

Dude...if you're trying to grab bragging rights for a big wall by climbing that dirty deed up on Mt. Garfield, I don't think you're going to get much support...maybe you can impress one of them pad people or them folks in the gym.

 

And ditto if you want to call yourself an "alpinist", or an "alpine big-wall master" because said dirty-deed is located on a mountain.

 

Kevbone to Gym Rat: "yo, yo, sup, so I climbed this alpine big wall last weekend...yo...you payin' attention? I said "BIG WALL", little man!"

 

Gym Rat to Kevbone: "Big Wall? Is that the route with the red tape?"

 

I have to agree, if I can take a newbie up it to the top of IB (her 5th time climbing outside), I would hardly consider it a big wall or that difficult, tiring yes, especiall the rapping.

 

I liked Joseph's description of big wall, not something rising away from me, more looming above me making me feel really small, is what I consider a big wall.

[kevbone]

I don’t necessarily think IB is a big wall, but I do feel small on it. I do think it has big wall things about it. But as the description above……it is not a big wall.

[archenemy]

Not a definition (I believe you all have shown that's an impossibility), but below is how a couple of the experts weigh in...

John Middendorf says (from BigWalls.net):

"Big wall climbs are all about getting out in the wilderness and spending multiple days and nights on the largest rock faces in the world....Climbing all day on technical rock for many successive days, dealing with a multitude of physical and mental challenges, setting up belays and bivouacs, and finally reaching the summit makes for an unforgettable experience....Big-wall climbs are, among other things, technological achievements. The management of more items than contained in a small mountain shop can be a considerable task in itself....Big walls are gear intensive:

 

Main Equipment

 

Single or Double Portaledge (for images see my portfolio)

Haulbags

Ropes (2-3)

Hauling Pulley

Stuff Sacks for food and gear organization

Water Bottles (2 liter soda bottles)

First Aid Kit (cloth tape, Neosporin, aspirin, etc.)

Repair Kit (Duct tape, Speedy Stitcher, etc.)

Food

 

Rack

 

2-3 Sets of camming devices

2-3 sets of wired stoppers

2-3 sets of small brass-nuts

80 carabiners

Hook selection (2 to 5 of the standard types)

Copperhead selection (10-25)

Pitons (5-10 knifeblades, 10-20 horizontals, 15-25 angles)

3 to 5 Birdbeaks

Tie-offs and runners

Bolt Kit (optional)"

 

Personal Wall Gear (per climber)

 

Harness

Aiders

Jumars

Hammer & holster

Headlamp

Rain gear

Wall-boots

Kneepads and fingerless gloves

Wall spoon and Swiss army knife

Sleeping bag and ensolite

 

Russ Walling says (from FishProducts.com):

"What does it take to get 3 guys, a sheep, some booze, and 230lbs. of gear to the top of (a big wall) in under a week?

Wall climbing is rarely about big skill and great shape. This is another plus in your favor. Wall climbing is systems and tenacity. With a basic knowledge of how to free climb, a good idea of how moving within the aid system works, and a bulldog determination to reach the summit, you will. So, in the most basic terms, here's what I recommend for somebody thinking about doing a first wall.

 

1. Be in good shape, especially in the cardiovascular area. Wall climbing is less about climbing and more about being able to bust your hump all day long. Most wall days are about 12 hours of toil. It is a lot like working on a shipping dock, except there is no floor.

 

2. Have strong legs. Hauling and Jumaring is just like going up flights of stairs. If you get a leg shake carrying in the groceries at home, do some leg work. Any good program of bike riding, talus hiking, or gym work will help you out in this area.

 

3. Have strong hands and forearms. Hanging on Jumars all day will bake you. Better technique will help you here, but on your first wall you will be gripping these units so tight that if the handles were coal, they might turn into diamonds. Cramping is also a big problem here. Always try to hang on your Jumars from the daisy chain to your waist rather than your hands and arms. A smooth technique here will save you tons of grief in the form of sore hands, cramps, and power failure.

 

4. Be confident. Break the wall down into small chunks rather than looking at it as a huge ordeal. Plan out your bivies and then hit the marks. Each day is a new day, and even if you rolled into the bivy at midnight the previous night, hit your mark today and then keep going. Think of each day as a mini wall. These little victories will keep you going.

 

5. Remember, it is supposed to be fun. Don't pick a partner that is an anus. The pressure that is put on any team will bring weird vibes and outright yelling to the surface. There is an old adage that "put a man on a wall and you'll see what kind of man you've got". Very true. Maintain an even keel. Everyone up there is trying to do their best. Berating your partner is a fools game. Work together as a team, not some macho solo act. You ain't Patton."

I agree with and relate to all this. But it leaves out a handful important points of bigwalling:

 

1. You must be able to shit in a bag in front of your climbing partner.

 

2. You must be able to pretend you don't see your partner doing that very same thing just a few feet away from you.

 

3. You must be able to take an unwrapped Jolly Rancher from your partners hand (right after surviving Step 2) and saying "Thanks" with a smile on your face.

 

Then, and only then, can you call yourself a bigwaller.

[sk]

Not a definition (I believe you all have shown that's an impossibility), but below is how a couple of the experts weigh in...

John Middendorf says (from BigWalls.net):

"Big wall climbs are all about getting out in the wilderness and spending multiple days and nights on the largest rock faces in the world....Climbing all day on technical rock for many successive days, dealing with a multitude of physical and mental challenges, setting up belays and bivouacs, and finally reaching the summit makes for an unforgettable experience....Big-wall climbs are, among other things, technological achievements. The management of more items than contained in a small mountain shop can be a considerable task in itself....Big walls are gear intensive:

 

Main Equipment

 

Single or Double Portaledge (for images see my portfolio)

Haulbags

Ropes (2-3)

Hauling Pulley

Stuff Sacks for food and gear organization

Water Bottles (2 liter soda bottles)

First Aid Kit (cloth tape, Neosporin, aspirin, etc.)

Repair Kit (Duct tape, Speedy Stitcher, etc.)

Food

 

Rack

 

2-3 Sets of camming devices

2-3 sets of wired stoppers

2-3 sets of small brass-nuts

80 carabiners

Hook selection (2 to 5 of the standard types)

Copperhead selection (10-25)

Pitons (5-10 knifeblades, 10-20 horizontals, 15-25 angles)

3 to 5 Birdbeaks

Tie-offs and runners

Bolt Kit (optional)"

 

Personal Wall Gear (per climber)

 

Harness

Aiders

Jumars

Hammer & holster

Headlamp

Rain gear

Wall-boots

Kneepads and fingerless gloves

Wall spoon and Swiss army knife

Sleeping bag and ensolite

 

Russ Walling says (from FishProducts.com):

"What does it take to get 3 guys, a sheep, some booze, and 230lbs. of gear to the top of (a big wall) in under a week?

Wall climbing is rarely about big skill and great shape. This is another plus in your favor. Wall climbing is systems and tenacity. With a basic knowledge of how to free climb, a good idea of how moving within the aid system works, and a bulldog determination to reach the summit, you will. So, in the most basic terms, here's what I recommend for somebody thinking about doing a first wall.

 

1. Be in good shape, especially in the cardiovascular area. Wall climbing is less about climbing and more about being able to bust your hump all day long. Most wall days are about 12 hours of toil. It is a lot like working on a shipping dock, except there is no floor.

 

2. Have strong legs. Hauling and Jumaring is just like going up flights of stairs. If you get a leg shake carrying in the groceries at home, do some leg work. Any good program of bike riding, talus hiking, or gym work will help you out in this area.

 

3. Have strong hands and forearms. Hanging on Jumars all day will bake you. Better technique will help you here, but on your first wall you will be gripping these units so tight that if the handles were coal, they might turn into diamonds. Cramping is also a big problem here. Always try to hang on your Jumars from the daisy chain to your waist rather than your hands and arms. A smooth technique here will save you tons of grief in the form of sore hands, cramps, and power failure.

 

4. Be confident. Break the wall down into small chunks rather than looking at it as a huge ordeal. Plan out your bivies and then hit the marks. Each day is a new day, and even if you rolled into the bivy at midnight the previous night, hit your mark today and then keep going. Think of each day as a mini wall. These little victories will keep you going.

 

5. Remember, it is supposed to be fun. Don't pick a partner that is an anus. The pressure that is put on any team will bring weird vibes and outright yelling to the surface. There is an old adage that "put a man on a wall and you'll see what kind of man you've got". Very true. Maintain an even keel. Everyone up there is trying to do their best. Berating your partner is a fools game. Work together as a team, not some macho solo act. You ain't Patton."

I agree with and relate to all this. But it leaves out a handful important points of bigwalling:

 

1. You must be able to shit in a bag in front of your climbing partner.

 

2. You must be able to pretend you don't see your partner doing that very same thing just a few feet away from you.

 

3. You must be able to take an unwrapped Jolly Rancher from your partners hand (right after surviving Step 2) and saying "Thanks" with a smile on your face.

 

Then, and only then, can you call yourself a bigwaller.

 

yep

 

I like sour apple jolly ranchers.

[jmace]

Jeez I sure need a whole lot less stuff for the 43 pitch route on the NW face of the Civetta..and the 20 odd pitch cima grande..

 

A set of nuts is recommended and im pretty sure they are big walls..im off in two days wooo fuckn hoo