Scooter....free as a bird

[lI1|1!]

with a presidential pardon

[TyClimber]

I am not trying to look at this from a partisan perspective, I would have been just as outraged if was the Dems doing this. The way I see it, this was a flagrant disregard of the legal process.

[Seahawks]

Um, he just said that dems and repubs should both view this issue.

 

And it is an equally big problem to dismiss it or to derail the discussion with "every pres does this"

 

Disagree.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_pardoned_by_a_United_States_president

[TyClimber]

I am not saying that the other presidents who pardonned people were right or wrong. I am talking about the current president and this pardon. Can anyone make a valid argument that it was the right thing to do? Like I said, I am a liberal but if it was a Democratic president who had done the same thing I would have been just as pissed.

[mattp]

I can buy the argument that Clinton was sleazy, perhaps, or that he pardoned a bunch of people who had "connections," but there really is no comparison of those pardons with this commutation of Libby's punishment.

 

There was nobody in the Clinton Whitehouse thought to be in a position to reveal felony actions of high Clinton officials, because after nearly eight years of investigations the worst crime they could find was that of lying about a blow job. Bush pardoned Libby to protect his man Cheney or others in Cheney's office. Does anybody honestly believe otherwise?

[underworld]

right.. who could EVVVVEERRRRRR have a different opinion than yours. aside from the seriously under-educated. duh

[cj001f]

right.. who could EVVVVEERRRRRR have a different opinion than yours. aside from the seriously under-educated. duh

 

believing scooter wasnt guilty is in the same league as the toothfairy and Iraqi WMD

[Seahawks]

I can buy the argument that Clinton was sleazy, perhaps, or that he pardoned a bunch of people who had "connections," but there really is no comparison of those pardons with this commutation of Libby's punishment.

 

There was nobody in the Clinton Whitehouse thought to be in a position to reveal felony actions of high Clinton officials, because after nearly eight years of investigations the worst crime they could find was that of lying about a blow job. Bush pardoned Libby to protect his man Cheney or others in Cheney's office. Does anybody honestly believe otherwise?

 

Come on does "any" president pardon unless there is a reason? Please call all pots black.

[underworld]

he was talking about bush's motives (speculation)... not what actually happened.

 

also, i was talking about his (and other's) attitude in general...

[cj001f]

he was talking about bush's motives (speculation)... not what actually happened.

 

also, i was talking about his (and other's) attitude in general...

 

with all that herring whens the bbq?

[Jim]

Sure all presidents do this. Put in place a scheme to out a CIA officer as revenge for her husband actually telling the truth in public. Then have the vice president's right hand man lie under to protect the scheme, then pardon him. Now I know Reagan was the best at this, pardoning felons out of his own administration, but I don't remember Clinton doing this.

[TyClimber]

Again, we aren't saying that Clinton or any other president's pardons were ok. If you can make a coherent argument about this specific case please do so. Simply repeating the fact that other presidents have also passed down some shady pardons doesn't really add anything to the debate. Do you automatically support and Bush decision simply because he is a "conservative"? I generally vote Democrat, but I don't think the Democratic leaders are always right. I try and look at each issue and make my own decision about it, not simply follow the party line.

[Seahawks]

Sure all presidents do this. Put in place a scheme to out a CIA officer as revenge for her husband actually telling the truth in public. Then have the vice president's right hand man lie under to protect the scheme, then pardon him. Now I know Reagan was the best at this, pardoning felons out of his own administration, but I don't remember Clinton doing this.

 

No he just found ways to get rid of problems for himself. i.e. Whitewater and purgery under oath.

Edited July 3, 2007 by Seahawks

[kevbone]

I can buy the argument that Clinton was sleazy, perhaps, or that he pardoned a bunch of people who had "connections," but there really is no comparison of those pardons with this commutation of Libby's punishment.

 

There was nobody in the Clinton Whitehouse thought to be in a position to reveal felony actions of high Clinton officials, because after nearly eight years of investigations the worst crime they could find was that of lying about a blow job. Bush pardoned Libby to protect his man Cheney or others in Cheney's office. Does anybody honestly believe otherwise?

 

Well said Matt.

[kevbone]

Seahawks……Scooter is a liar and a pawn.

 

Are you supporting this action by the president?

 

 

Yes or no

 

[Seahawks]

Seahawks……Scooter is a liar and a pawn.

 

Are you supporting this action by the president?

 

 

Yes or no

 

"Yeah, it's improper to be leaking those names," Snow said. Pressed on whether someone in the administration owed the American public an apology, Snow said, "I'll apologize. Done."

[kevbone]

You are as slippery as a republican….wait….you are a republican……side stepping the question at hand.

[ericb]

I can buy the argument that Clinton was sleazy, perhaps, or that he pardoned a bunch of people who had "connections," but there really is no comparison of those pardons with this commutation of Libby's punishment.

 

There was nobody in the Clinton Whitehouse thought to be in a position to reveal felony actions of high Clinton officials, because after nearly eight years of investigations the worst crime they could find was that of lying about a blow job. Bush pardoned Libby to protect his man Cheney or others in Cheney's office. Does anybody honestly believe otherwise?

 

Matt - first, he commuted his sentence - or more specifically the jail portion....not a pardon - he's still guilty as far as the courts are concerned. Second, how does commuting his jail term protect "his man Cheney" If anything, he's more accessible for book deals now than he would have been in prison?

[mattp]

You are quite right there, Mr. B. that he commuted the sentence rather than pardoned it. That was sloppy writing on my part as I am aware of the difference.

 

Do you really think that Scooter Libby is going to write a book now that he wouldn't have written if he went to jail? Are you nuts? He's not going to pay a dime of his fine, and what do you want to bet he gets the full pardon eventually -- the White House even specifically held out that "possibility" today. Libby will be taken care of and now there is no pressure for him to negotiate a lesser term in exchange for squealing on his boss.

[Jim]

Scotter's fine is already paid for by his "defense committee" - weathy admirers.

[kevbone]

When do you think the impeachment hearings will start for Bush and Cheney?

[Jim]

Not going to happen. The refusal to submit to subpoenas - the strategy is to run out the clock. The Bush lawyers will ensure that this decision is delayed with proceedings until he is gone. Now that you don't hear Bush talk much about victory in Iraq he apparantly is using the same strategy here - run out the clock and hand over the mess to the next administration. It will be nice to have some adult supervision in the White House.

Edited July 3, 2007 by Jim

[kevbone]

Refusing to submit subpeonas is illegal. Right? Is that not an impeachable offense? We have to start somewere.

[ericb]

.... after nearly eight years of investigations the worst crime they could find was that of lying about a blow job...

 

Matt - I believe that integrity is the single most important quality in a leader. It never ceases to amaze me how people gloss over a little marital infidelity. If he doesn't take his marriage vows seriously, why in the world would we believe he took his oath of office seriously.

 

All of the lies Bush is accused of seem to focus around his protecting wealth and power (his and others), his foisting of his ideological agenda on the Arab World. You can argue whether this is right or wrong....but it's at least behavior befitting a power hungry politician.

 

And Clinton's???....blowing his wad on a stupid chubby little intern's dress....who saved it???

 

Who's the dumbass?

[kevbone]

after nearly eight years of investigations the worst crime they could find was that of lying about a blow job...

If he doesn't take his marriage vows seriously, why in the world would we believe he took his oath of office seriously.

 

When you don’t take your wedding vows seriously, you hurt your spouse and maybe some other family. When you don’t take your presidential vows seriously thousands of people die……big difference.