cocaine connection icicle buttress bolts

[marc_leclerc]

It's a simple and fundamental truth, just like f=ma

and Vf^2= Vi^2 + 2ad then Pi = mv .. with those you can find your momentum when the rope catches you after the 60 ft whip!

[pope]

Hi,

I'm writing regarding the runout bolts on the 5.7 Cocaine Connection route on Icicle buttress. I tried to lead it this weekend and backed off halfway through the 30 foot runout past the third bolt. I've been focusing on cracks this season, and I'm rusty at friction.

What's really sick, and kind of sad is that I put that route up myself back around 1983 with Mike Beldin. Mike drilled about 2 of the bolts. (the guide book is wrong, and yes, Victor knows).

We led it from the ground up, no rappel cleaning or bolting or previewing. We carried a hand drill and a wire brush. We built it with 1/4 inch bolts, which have been replaced by someone, thank you.

 

My question for the climbing community at large is, should I add a few bolts (2 or three) to prevent a possible broken leg or worse? My understanding of retro-bolting is that the first ascensionist is the only one who can do it...and that's me.

 

I was talking to a young free solo artist and he said that my thinking is wrong. He said that the route has become a standard, and the runouts are accepted and that my adding bolts to it would be wrong.

 

It is true that the climber I was then, and the climber I am now are two different people. I was young, hot and bold back then. But if it's my choice, I say the route is dangerous.

 

My feeling is that there are far too many cliffs that have been basically destroyed by young primadonnas like I was back then. Look at the pinnacles, sunset slab, or Slender Thread, Cajun Queen at the top. So much excellent rock basically off limits to beginning climbers because they were put up with runnouts.

 

Can we have a little common sense here?

 

Any thoughts?

 

Mark, thanks for the thoughtful post. I'm encouraged that you're willing to solicit opininions before adding to the increasing number of bolts in Leavenworth granite. Climbing, by its nature, is dangerous. Adding bolts may decrease the potential for long falls and injuries. Then again, extra bolts may attract climbers who wouldn't otherwise attempt the route, climbers with less skill who are more likely to find a way to hurt themselves. You can't completely fool-proof a route. Climbing fatalities occur on pitches where you can plug a 2.5" cam every 3 feet. By adding bolts to your climb, you are lowering the expectations. A climber who is "capapble" of 5.7 may be lured higher by the vision of a shiny bolt 10 feet above, when in fact he/she does not have the experience or fitness necessary to commit to the moves necessary to reach that bolt.

 

I object to the notion that certain pitches in the Pinnacles have been "destroyed" by the sparse application of bolts. So what if a climb of a given grade requires confident climbing between well-spaced bolts? All this means is that climbers must be honest in their ability to climb at that grade. If beginners can't climb run-out 5.8 routes, perhaps they're not ready for 5.8 and should seek 5.6 climbs until their confidence and experience increases. The ability to recognize that a pitch is too difficult and/or dangerous for current abilities, and the willingness to retreat from such a climb ultimately make climbers, both novice and expert, safer and more competent to participate in the wide variety of experiences that climbing offers.

 

 

[JosephH]

Mark, just curious - how old are you and what type of shape are you in relative to 1983? I started in '74 and am 56 this year and still at it. But, I had to pay some pretty vicious dues for about a year back when I was 50 to get back in decent shape. In the end I found it was well worth the effort and I've also seen a few other 50+ climbers around PDX go through the same spin cycle as well who are back climbing at a reasonably high level.

 

I do like your concept of working on yourself before working on the route - pretty much what I have to do every year before I can get back on my own routes with any confidence. I use them as a yardstick for how I'm doing as the year progresses given I can't usually just jump on them right away. In general, I don't mind not getting up other peoples routes, but it's a drag when I can't get up my own.

[hemp22]

Perhaps a better question would be to ask Mark what he ended up deciding to do last summer, since that's when this thread originated.

Sounds like he just let it go.

Hopefully if he sees this thread, he'll let us know.

 

(i don't get to Lworth enough to have a meaningful opinion, but i'd also say no more bolts are necessary)

[denalidave]

Routes should be left alone unless the climbing community at large agrees it is excessively unsafe, good luck getting an agreed consensus on that. Just my .02 worth, but I guess I'm a day late and about .98 short...

 

Who is the "climbing community at large"? Does that include the masses of minions who frolic in the gym but rarely venture outdoors? Does it include any of the untold thousands of "climbers" who bought some shoes, ropes and quickdraws to grab some quick "adventure" at grid-bolted venues like Exit 38 and its ilk?

 

I say: add another bolt = wreck it some more.

Like I said, good luck getting a consensus... even on what the definition of what the "climbing community at large" is.

[lancegranite]

 

I free soloed the route the other day, did not seem any harder than usual. must be me.

[markwebster]

I'm surprised this thread got reactivated. If you read the whole thing, you'll see that I eventually decided it was me being an old pussy. Mike and I did put up a nice bold route and since it hasn't put anyone in the hospital, it should remain as it is.

 

I'm intentionally climbing in the pinnacles this season for a few weekends to build up my confidence on run out routes. I should be good to go on cocaine connection this year.

 

I'm totally ok with more bolts, but that's an old mans perspective, and this being a young mans sport...gotta go with the flow.

[telemarker]

If a climber's objective is Cocaine Crack, then why isn't he/she climbing The Arch and Forking Crack to get there? That's such a fun link-up, and makes for a nice after-work jaunt.

[bwrts]

Because in order to get the Cocaine crack you have to get the cocaine connection.

 

Telemarker- if you like the the arch then go climb the Ramp by the Yellow wall. Fun Neglected Pitch...

[mattp]

I'm totally ok with more bolts, but that's an old mans perspective, and this being a young mans sport...gotta go with the flow.

 

There have been some good points made here but don't assume this discussion reflects any fair sampling of opinions on the matter or that younger climbers are less likely to accept it if you were to go out and move or add a bolt on Cocaine Connection.

[tomtom]

From this angle, the bolting looks reasonable.

 

[dmuja]

I'm intentionally climbing in the pinnacles this season for a few weekends to build up my confidence on run out routes. I should be good to go on cocaine connection this year.

 

There's a short slab pitch called "B.S." (Bolted Slab? OR Bull Shit?) over on the crag that's climbers right of "Roto Wall". I thought it was pretty fucking hard if you didn't cheat on it. Requires near perfect ballance to avoid falling or slipping and even then you may end up grabbing crystals in the rock for holds. Definately not my idea of a 5.6! BTW it had one bolt on it and that was loose when I did it.

 

Also there's "Gun Show" at x38