Well I know I am not in Kansas......

[ken4ord]

This morning, like almost any weekday morning Misti and I get in the car and head down our dirt road to work. Today as we were pulling out of our gate there was several guys standing out in front of it which was sort of odd since we live on a dead end street and are close to being one of the last houses on the street. We made a comment to each, wondering what these guys are doing. We didn't give it too much thought since after all we do have a guard at our house and Misti's mom was there and our nanny.

 

Just a few minutes ago I got a call from Misti. She had just found out that those guys were there to dig up a mass grave that was right next to our house. Very creepy, especially since I have been thinking of doing some digging there to build some double jumps.

[minx]

whoa--surreal

[Dechristo]

people gotta eat

[ZimZam]

Post deleted by ZimZam

[archenemy]

This morning, like almost any weekday morning Misti and I get in the car and head down our dirt road to work. Today as we were pulling out of our gate there was several guys standing out in front of it which was sort of odd since we live on a dead end street and are close to being one of the last houses on the street. We made a comment to each, wondering what these guys are doing. We didn't give it too much thought since after all we do have a guard at our house and Misti's mom was there and our nanny.

 

Just a few minutes ago I got a call from Misti. She had just found out that those guys were there to dig up a mass grave that was right next to our house. Very creepy, especially since I have been thinking of doing some digging there to build some double jumps.

I am so sorry to hear this. How awful for people in the area to be re-traumatized by these types of unexpected rememberences. And awful for you to come face to face with the evidence of these horrors. Very sorry for you all there during this time.

[Dechristo]

sympathy troll

[Seahawks]

people gotta eat

 

 

Fucked up troll

Edited April 20, 2007 by olyclimber

[Stonehead]

Never been to Africa but parts of the continent come across as a violent place. This is certainly a misconception in my mind. I don't necessarily believe it's a cultural thing either.

 

Maybe it's time, as in development. For example, somewhat similar massacres have been reported here in the States also.

Pottawatomie Massacre in Kansas 1856

 

[ivan]

Never been to Africa but parts of the continent come across as a violent place given its often political instability and inequity. This is certainly a misconception in my mind. I don't necessarily believe it's a cultural thing either.

 

Maybe it's time, as in development. For example, somewhat similar massacres have been reported here in the States also.

Pottawatomie Massacre in Kansas 1856

sand creek massacre, my personal favorite

[Dechristo]

so, scale of massacre is irrelevant?

[Weekend_Climberz]

Kill a few, you're a murderer. Kill a million, you're a conquerer.

 

Ken4ord: That's some f*cked up shizzle It would be interesting to know what the story is about this mass grave. Is there any more information on it??

[Stonehead]

No. Massacres are a symptom of the breakdown of lawfulness, the type of lawfulness characteristic of a civil society. Vigilantism, that falls into this category of unlawfulness.

 

Seems we're (US) really 'blessed' that given a population of 300 million people that we don't see these kinds of things today (but with the uncommon exceptions).

[Seahawks]

http://www.bgsu.edu/departments/acs/1890s/woundedknee/WKIntro.html

 

Did a report on this. Really sad.

[Stonehead]

http://www.bgsu.edu/departments/acs/1890s/woundedknee/WKIntro.html

 

Did a report on this. Really sad.

 

Judged from today's 'enlightened' worldview, this is truly sad and injust. But judged from the values of a different time, then this seemed to be rather the norm than the exception.

 

I have a hard time grasping the idea of genocide.

[Seahawks]

http://www.bgsu.edu/departments/acs/1890s/woundedknee/WKIntro.html

 

Did a report on this. Really sad.

 

Judged from today's 'enlightened' worldview, this is truly sad and injust. But judged from the values of a different time, then this seemed to be rather the norm than the exception.

 

I have a hard time grasping the idea of genicide.

 

Being that there were no men of fighting age (or very few)in this camp and they attacked at dawn and shot old men, women and children it was more of a extermination campaign against the indians. They even mutilated the bodies which later the indians copied with Custor and were called barbaric

Edited April 19, 2007 by Seahawks

[archenemy]

And to use the arguement of "values of a different time" is bullshit. To use this, one must believe that basic values (such as not engaging in mass murder) are completely relative. I just don't buy that.

[Dechristo]

geez, amazing how body mutilation migrated thoughout the world and backwards through time from there.

 

 

dude, wtf, you can't spell "Custor's" name correctly?

[ivan]

http://www.bgsu.edu/departments/acs/1890s/woundedknee/WKIntro.html

 

Did a report on this. Really sad.

 

Judged from today's 'enlightened' worldview, this is truly sad and injust. But judged from the values of a different time, then this seemed to be rather the norm than the exception.

 

I have a hard time grasping the idea of genicide.

 

Being that there were no men of fighting age (or very few)in this camp and they attacked at dawn and shot old men, women and children it was more of a extermination campaign against the indians. They even mutilated the bodies which later the indians copied with Custor and were called barbaric

 

sounds like your talking about sand creek, not wounded knee

 

the sandcreek massacre occured before "custer's last stand" which in turn occured before the wounded knee massacre

 

atrocity highlights from sand-creek:

- black kettle had his nuts chopped off and turned into a tobacco pouch (he was a venerable and friendly indian chief who'd been given an american flag to fly over his tent to show his "civilian status", he'd brought his people to a local army fort for protection when other tribes had started hostilities - that fort then turned on him)

- soldiers placed bets on the gender of fetuses inside slaughtered women and then performed dissections to settle the bet

-some soldiers removed the ovaries of dead indians and laid them out on their saddles for souvenirs

 

"bury my heart at wounded knee" is an excellent read on the subject - an early attempt at "revisionist" history

[archenemy]

And correct me if i am wrong, but women were also "scalped" downlow and their "pelts" used for decoration on soldiers hats.

[Stonehead]

And to use the arguement of "values of a different time" is bullshit. To use this, one must believe that basic values (such as not engaging in mass murder) are completely relative. I just don't buy that.

 

I'm not condoning or condemning anything here. Just pointing things out. For instance, during times in ancient Greece, infanticide was practiced. Today, abortion is legal. Perhaps, one day this present-day practice will be considered just as abhorrent.

 

Read the Old Testament or the Bhagavad Gita sometime for some good ole time massacre, warfare, etc.

[Seahawks]

http://www.bgsu.edu/departments/acs/1890s/woundedknee/WKIntro.html

 

Did a report on this. Really sad.

 

Judged from today's 'enlightened' worldview, this is truly sad and injust. But judged from the values of a different time, then this seemed to be rather the norm than the exception.

 

I have a hard time grasping the idea of genicide.

 

Being that there were no men of fighting age (or very few)in this camp and they attacked at dawn and shot old men, women and children it was more of a extermination campaign against the indians. They even mutilated the bodies which later the indians copied with Custor and were called barbaric

 

sounds like your talking about sand creek, not wounded knee

 

the sandcreek massacre occured before "custer's last stand" which in turn occured before the wounded knee massacre

 

atrocity highlights from sand-creek:

- black kettle had his nuts chopped off and turned into a tobacco pouch (he was a venerable and friendly indian chief who'd been given an american flag to fly over his tent to show his "civilian status", he'd brought his people to a local army fort for protection when other tribes had started hostilities - that fort then turned on him)

- soldiers placed bets on the gender of fetuses inside slaughtered women and then performed dissections to settle the bet

-some soldiers removed the ovaries of dead indians and laid them out on their saddles for souvenirs

 

"bury my heart at wounded knee" is an excellent read on the subject - an early attempt at "revisionist" history

 

Your right, I was. Wounded knee happened after Battle little big horn and the Powder river Campaign.

 

 

With only their bare hands to fight back, the Indians tried to defend themselves, but the incident deteriorated further into bloody chaos, and the 350 unarmed Indians were outmatched and outnumbered by the nearly 500 U.S. soldiers.

The majority of the massacre fatalities occurred during the initial ten to twenty minutes of the incident, but the firing lasted for several hours as the army chased after those who tried to escape into the nearby ravine. According to recollections by some of the Indian survivors, the soldiers cried out "Remember the Little Bighorn" as they sportingly hunted down those who fled -- evidence to them that the massacre was in revenge of Custers demise at Little Bighorn in 1876.and after most all of them had been killed a cry was made that all those who were not killed or wounded should come forth and they would be safe. Little boys...came out of their places of refuge, and as soon as they came in sight a number of soldiers surrounded them and butchered them there."

Twenty-three soldiers from the Seventh Calvary were later awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor for the slaughter of defenseless Indians at Wounded Knee

Edited April 19, 2007 by Seahawks

[ken4ord]

This morning, like almost any weekday morning Misti and I get in the car and head down our dirt road to work. Today as we were pulling out of our gate there was several guys standing out in front of it which was sort of odd since we live on a dead end street and are close to being one of the last houses on the street. We made a comment to each, wondering what these guys are doing. We didn't give it too much thought since after all we do have a guard at our house and Misti's mom was there and our nanny.

 

Just a few minutes ago I got a call from Misti. She had just found out that those guys were there to dig up a mass grave that was right next to our house. Very creepy, especially since I have been thinking of doing some digging there to build some double jumps.

I am so sorry to hear this. How awful for people in the area to be re-traumatized by these types of unexpected rememberences. And awful for you to come face to face with the evidence of these horrors. Very sorry for you all there during this time.

 

Definietly sucks for people, a lot of my co-workers have been traumatized by the whole experience. Our cleaner at our house is the only one remaining in her family. This will continue on for a long time with Gacaca (comuunity tribuls). They estimate another 15-20 years before all of the trial processes are over. At this point it is sort of rediculus, because people who are charged are dying of AIDS or old age in some cases. Prison is sometimes a better option since they have a bed, job and meals, no pay. This grave site that was in front of our house was a complete family, I guess there is another accross the street that they still need to dig up.

 

Sort of bizzare where this thread went when I was gone for a few days.

[snugtop]

Do any of your neighbors remember what happened there? Or did everyone involved either get murdered or move away?

 

btw, this is my 999th post.

[ken4ord]

Everybody who was here is gone now. They found the grave as a result of a confession.

[high_on_rock]

I think people are easier to understand if we view ourselves as animals. Animals often try to kill entire packs of other animals for whatever reason of the day seems to work (protecting property, food, perceived threat, ...).I believe that if you look throughout human history you will find the mass killings, and it being seen as acceptable throughout most of history. "We", meaning many today, still view mass killing as acceptable, based upon religion, perceived threat, perceived superiority. i.e., Let's bomb Iran!