rob Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 So, I'm looking to start adding some cams to my rack. I've mostly ever climbed with camalots, and of course I've loved them. But they're not cheap. What's the scuttlebutt on friends? Forged friends are just so cheap, and have been around forever. Anybody here climb with them? I guess they're real popular in the UK. What's the story? What is so great about BD that would justify spending twice as much? Isn't the obvious downfall with friends (rigid stem) easily backed up with cordage? TIA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 (edited) There are numerous threads comparing the two cam types, but the consensus is that you should avoid the Forged Friends in the smaller sizes. If you are pressed for cash, you can buy used Camalots, but the new design is so much better in my opinion, it would be worth it to buy them new. You could buy Purple and Green Camalots and then complete your set with the corresponding larger Friends. Later, you can work to complete the set of Camalots up above Green, a cam at a time until you have a complete set plus extras in the form of Forged Friends. Edited March 2, 2007 by catbirdseat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafael_H Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 You've only completed 50% of necessary due diligence,now finish up the rest: climb with Forged Friends on several granite climbs. I suspect you wouldn't need anybody's advice afterwards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
counterfeitfake Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 I started cheap by buying DMM cams. The are a good value, and some people like them a lot because they're light. They work well. I own C4s now also, because they are really nice. They are "worth it" because they're really versatile, they work well in horizontal placements, they place easily, they have a wide expansion range so there's less guesswork, the action is really smooth and easy, the loop is easy to grab, you can clip the loop while aid climbing... lots of reasons. But I think you have to get some experience before you know you want the expensive stuff. Besides, there's a good chance you'll eventually want a double set of cams, so why not start cheap? I don't have a lot of experience with rigid cams, but I'm sure they work, and they're cheap. You probably will have to be more careful to use them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweatinoutliquor Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 I'll sell you 6 used forged friends (1, 1.5, 2(2), 4(2)) for 70 bucks if you are interested. No falls. PM me if you were interested or want photos... I've been wafling over getting rid of them, just because I don't really use them very much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jens Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 Forged Friends are a better cam than the latest version (or any version of the Black Diamond Camalots). I'd tell you why but I don't have time to type my 20 reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 Rob....if you can afford it, buy Camelot’s. Try not to look at it as too expensive. Don’t put a price on your life. There are the best device out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
counterfeitfake Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 Jens is either a troll or an eccentric. Kevbone is either a troll or a dumbass or maybe both. Buy the forged friends offered above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Posted March 3, 2007 Author Share Posted March 3, 2007 Rob....if you can afford it, buy Camelot’s. Try not to look at it as too expensive. Don’t put a price on your life. There are the best device out there. I'm curious, why do you think camalots are safer than friends? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klimber Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 Forged Friends are a better cam than the latest version (or any version of the Black Diamond Camalots). I'd tell you why but I don't have time to type my 20 reasons. ok, how about 5 of them? or one a day for the next 20 days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric8 Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 I have friends, both forged and tech, and most of my partners have camalots so I have climbed on both about equally. Generally, speaking your going to like whatever you climb on more. Both get the job done, I have taken falls on both brands and had both brands pull before, to. So its really just about the placement. But here are the pros and cons as I see them. Camalots have a flexible stem, a wider range per unit on average and the trigger seems to be less sticky or could that be because all the c4s my partners have are less then 2 years old? The cons are they weigh more, cost more, are more prone to getting stuck, and are less durable. I don't really like friends smaller than 1.75 size and see no reason to buy camalots above number 3 friend. The larger cracks are almost always deep enough that you can place forged friends in horizontals without tie offs. Small sizes this is not the case and so I like tcu's or aliens. Its okay to mix brans. Even if people start giving you strange looks. tcus, camalots to 1 or 2 and friends to top it off is the way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 Rob....if you can afford it, buy Camelot’s. Try not to look at it as too expensive. Don’t put a price on your life. There are the best device out there. I'm curious, why do you think camalots are safer than friends? Rob.....I did not say they were safer than Friends. I said they are the best out there. I am talking from my own experience as someone who has been leading for over ten years and has owned several different kinds of caming units. I have found that Camelot’s are the best. This of course…..is my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Posted March 4, 2007 Author Share Posted March 4, 2007 My bad, kev, I must have misunderstood. Thanks for the advice everyone. I'll put it to good use. I'm gonna just go with a mixed bag until I figure out what I like, and what works where. The best cam is the one having the most fun? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannible Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 Its okay to mix brands. Even if people start giving you strange looks. tcus, camalots to 1 or 2 and friends to top it off is the way to go. I have 10 or so cams made by 5 different companies. I am poor so I pretty much just buy what's on sale at the time. My rack works great for me, but most the time my partner brings the rack because I think that anyone but me would just be confused by mine. If I had to choose a brand I would say BD or metolious. I have a 3.5 forged friend and have never needed to place it in a horizontal crack, so it hasn't been a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 Rob....if you can afford it, buy Camelot’s. Try not to look at it as too expensive. Don’t put a price on your life. There are the best device out there. I'm curious, why do you think camalots are safer than friends? I'm convinced the reason so many people like Camalots is that they can be placed badly and still work okay. Other cams have to be placed well. So basically Camalots are ideal when you are sketched out of your mind and don't have the time to place a cam perfectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
high_on_rock Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 buy what you can afford and place it well. I have an assortment of whatever was cheap at the time, and climbed for years on the forged. They work. Climb, think, and have fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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