Another accident on Hood

[ryland_moore]

I have to agree with you guys as well. The weather forecast for Saturday was always great all last week, with weather deteriorating late Saturday and bad all day Sunday. Why anyone went up there unless to take laps and get a workout under the chair lift for a Denali training or something is beyond me. Absolutely ridiculous.

 

Also, I would like to know more about how the MLUs helped/hindered. Sounds like they do not provide pinpoint accuracy, but since there is a proposed bill for all of us to carry one, I would like to know 1) If they provided sound information as to the location of the party 2) If the rescue could be carried on without one in this situation (b/c the party was using cell phones)3)What benefits did the MLUs provide to the party by carrying them. 4) Do you think the party was overly optomistic in going up in bad weather becasue they were carrying an MLU (ie. false sense of security).

 

My argument is that if the party of 8 were carrying a GPS unit instead of an MLU they would not have ventured into White River Canyon and would nt have required a rescue to begin with. Last time I checked a GPS unit is about $300 cheaper than an MLU and does not involve volunteer resources or pulling money away from an already strapped State budget to serve a very small sector of the overall population.

[CUINOZ]

Certainly having locators would help in rescues.

 

I hope the 3 climbers and their pooch are rescued quickly and wish the rescuers good luck. Stay safe!!!!

 

 

[barkernews]

Reminder:

Hey guys, just a reminder that the local press (including my employer, KATU) is familiar with this forum and is monitoring it. Ya'll know we're not all evil... but please keep that in mind in the coming days/hours.

 

Best of luck to everyone on the mountain today.

[dmuja]

barkernews, Monitor this..you work for satan. The media sucks, lies, and almost never gets it right. They are about hype, entertainment and profit only, accuracy only matters to those ends - face the facts (that is if you could actually find them).

 

CUINOZ, your statement is stupid and meaningless. Your an idiot.

 

 

[mr_bean]

The MLU works when activated (dependant of course on not being blocked or inside a crevasse). The local press and the rescuers themselves are being very active this operation in promoting how effective the MLU was for the first 5 people at narrowing the search to within 50 feet of their snowcave. This party was exceptional in that they apparently had two MLU between the 8.

 

It costs 5$ to rent, seems to work better than nothing at all, and of course is not a replacement for a GPS/compass and map. No one has ever advertised as such. I don't understand the resistance to the thing within our community. It is one more piece of gear I take intended to ensure I get off the mountain alive and as a complement to my regular equipment.

 

Best of thoughts towards all in inhosbitable conditions.

 

Edited February 19, 2007 by mr_bean

[dmuja]

How about being smart enough to not go up with bad weather coming in? Gee ,,, theres an idea.

 

Reliance on post incident recovery/rescue gadgets is not very smart, nor is it what moutaineering is about.

 

These people were stupid or thought it would be fun to get rescued and get their names in the news. The news media eats this shit up. And self reliant mountaineers pay for it all with more regulations and less freedom.

 

 

[ryland_moore]

I am not saying that an MLU is being advertised as preventing an accident but in this case, it seems that the party used it as a false sense of security. They chose to carry an MLU over one of the most basic 10 essentials a map and compass. Or even better, a GPS. If they had been carrying the latter, there would have been no need for an MLU as they would have returned to Timberline without incident and the party of three would have never fallen over a cliff/cornice to begin with.

 

Plus, hey headed up in incliment weater or decided not to head down before incliment weather arrived (dependinig on when they went up - Friday or Saturday). Just all around bad judgement. But I think that the MLU should not be praised in this situation or the party carrying them, but that it should be looked at to see if the party relied on them and decided to head up in bad weather because they had there "safety net".

 

I do not trust them and will never carry one regardless of the law and will rely on my GPS and cell phone in case something really bad happens, but will mainly rely on sound judgement and my internal knowledge to carry me through a bad situation.

 

I don't rely on my avi tranceiver when venturing into the backcountry to tell me if conditions are safe to go skiing, so why would I rely on an MLU to save me in a situation that I got myself into in the first place. I wouldn't even carry an MLU is it were handed out for free at Timberline. Just my opinion.

 

[mr_bean]

This Seattle Times Article is the most recent and most detail filled I have seen.

 

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003579311_webmounthood19.html

 

[CUINOZ]

News reports they should be to the stranded climbers by noon west coast time. (Fox News Live)

 

 

[sobo]

ketch,

That's a really sweet picture! Love that shadow coming off the top onto the belly of the clouds. Righteous!

[CUINOZ]

Fox News reports they have found the climbers. No other info on their health yet. The 2 women may have concussions.

[jfmctlaw]

Ketch,

 

That's an awesome pic.

[kjlfaiejlifli]

First, thanks to all the rescuers helping in the effort. Second, no second guessing as to why these climbers are out there. I respect their desire and right to do so in whatever conditions they feel capable of doing it in. However, I know I will get reamed for this but, I don't respect anyone's decision to bring a dog up there. WTF? That dog isn't trained to climb. That dog can't guage a ledge. That dog didn't make a choice to go up a mountain in these conditions. I'm an animal lover and freak out in the az summer when dog owners don't see fit to supply their overly panting dogs water when walking them in 100 degree weather. I pray, more than anything, that dog makes it off the mountain. I pray that his owners do too, but if the dog don't, well so much for my sympathies for its owner.

[jfmctlaw]

good news........ Just mins ago

 

http://blog.oregonlive.com/breakingnews/2007/02/searchers_reach_climbers_repor.html

[ringlock]

Rescuers have located the 3 climbers, they are all okay.

 

And BTW that is a fifth class dog.

[billbob]

One would think that, given this winter's incidents, people would get the idea that upper elevations on Hood in winter is not a particularly user-friendly place to be. Experience in white-out conditions, standard alpine climbing equipment (GPS, compass/map etc.) and a lot of local knowledge mitigate risk to a great extent. MLU's are a choice we have in terms of insurance but they aren't a substitute for competence. Winter climbs on any PNW alpine routes demand a lot of respect and attention to weather changes.

[PaulO]

I learned the hard way a long time ago never take a dog climbing or hiking that is bigger than you can pack out. Anyways, not sure why they would take a dog up in these conditions but lots of dogs love to do it. My pooch, mostly cocker spaniel, when he was younger has been up Mt. St Helens twice, South Sister, Middle Sister 3 or 4 times and all but the very top of the North Sister as well as hiking hundreds of other wilderness miles. Probably the reason he still is around at 17 and up to 10+ miles.

 

GREAT NEWS on the group being found OK!

[sobo]

I am not saying that an MLU is being advertised as preventing an accident but in this case, it seems that the party used it as a false sense of security. They chose to carry an MLU over one of the most basic 10 essentials a map and compass. Or even better, a GPS. If they had been carrying the latter, there would have been no need for an MLU as they would have returned to Timberline without incident and the party of three would have never fallen over a cliff/cornice to begin with.

 

Plus, hey headed up in incliment weater or decided not to head down before incliment weather arrived (dependinig on when they went up - Friday or Saturday). Just all around bad judgement. But I think that the MLU should not be praised in this situation or the party carrying them, but that it should be looked at to see if the party relied on them and decided to head up in bad weather because they had there "safety net".

 

I do not trust them and will never carry one regardless of the law and will rely on my GPS and cell phone in case something really bad happens, but will mainly rely on sound judgement and my internal knowledge to carry me through a bad situation.

 

I don't rely on my avi tranceiver when venturing into the backcountry to tell me if conditions are safe to go skiing, so why would I rely on an MLU to save me in a situation that I got myself into in the first place. I wouldn't even carry an MLU is it were handed out for free at Timberline. Just my opinion.

 

Ryland,

I agree with everything you've said here, except the part about "...it seems that the party used it as a false sense of security..." Until they all get down and someone (hopefully SAR/MR and not the media) interviews them about this, I wouldn't make this pronouncement. But everything else you said, yes.

 

I don't agree that the MLU should get praised in this incident either, but you can bet your bottom dollar that is how the media is gonna portray it. These folks are going to be made out as "heroes" for carrying them, when in reality, the best tool we as mountaineers and climbers have in our toolbox is this:

...will mainly rely on sound judgement and my internal knowledge to carry me through a bad situation...

 

...MLU's are a choice we have in terms of insurance but they aren't a substitute for competence. Winter climbs on any PNW alpine routes demand a lot of respect and attention to weather changes.

 

Again, I agree. No piece of gear is a substitute for competence.

 

Funny anecdote that doesn't really seem funny to me anymore:

I bought my first avi transciever over 15 years ago, before the rampant "product warning label" craze set in. I replaced it about 5 years ago. When I read through the replacement unit's literature, I found this: "WARNING! This product will not prevent avalanches." At the time I laughed, now I'm just tired of all the labels, period.

[skeletor]

I guess it's only a matter of time before we see the Oregon legislature pass a bill requiring all climbers to carry a labrador with them...

 

 

[ryland_moore]

Good call. I probably overstated that part. I should have said something to the likes of "It could be construed that the party of 8 may have relied on something other than sound judgement and that by carrying MLUs, they may have had a false sense of security, but until the party is back and interviews are conducted we won't know the whole truth. However, it does seem ironic to me that they were carrying MLUs and headed up in incliment weather, full-well knowing the dangers and did not observe the obvious warning signs available to them on Saturday."

Edited February 19, 2007 by ryland_moore

[sobo]

wordy, but we agree. You know that you and I are on the same wavelength here.

 

Hey, how did it go at Strobach a couple weeks back?

[CUINOZ]

Well just because you have the tools does not mean you know how to use them nor pay attention to them.

However, the rescuers are the heros and hopefully they will return safe.

[sobo]

Well just because you have the tools does not mean you know how to use them nor pay attention to them...

 

That's where "judgement" and "experience" come in. Those things make you pay attention to the tools in your toolbox.

[Clavote]

How does your MLU work when you're alone?

 

I solo a lot and something like an MLU is dead weight for me.

 

In trips to Alaska I take a PLU which is similar to a boat EPIRB. Uses the same satellite frequencies and contacts SAR via the same satellites. In Alaska this seems to work real well for people in the bush.

 

MLUs are more like avalanche beacons. Nice if you have a bunch of other people around with probes and shovels.

[Clavote]

barkernews, Monitor this..you work for satan. The media sucks, lies, and almost never gets it right. They are about hype, entertainment and profit only, accuracy only matters to those ends - face the facts (that is if you could actually find them).

 

CUINOZ, your statement is stupid and meaningless. Your an idiot.

 

 

 

I thought journalism was an honorable profession that people would still do even if the profit motive was eliminated.

 

And that they were objective and "Fair and Balanced"tm.

 

I am dreaming!