All Religions are not Equal

[selkirk]

Could everyone please attempt to seperate "religion" from people?

 

Morals, Ethics, the teaching of Christ/Buddha/Mohamed/Moses/Lao Tzu/Confucius/......

 

When taken as guidebooks and corrected for their level of understanding at the time, are usually pretty damn good guides. The leap of faith part that makes a religion is fine.

 

People on the other hand pretty well suck. It's not religion's that cause wars/killing/genocide it's power hungry egomaniacs who use religion as a tool to generate more power/control and enforce their will on others. There are certainly other tools (read politics, be it international or street gang level). But that doesn't make the religion, or the belief system bad, it makes the people abusing them bad. Communism is a wonderful idea, but could only ever operate if people weren't fallible.

 

And no, belief doesn't necessitate the feeling that you have to shove your own beliefs down everyones throats. I'd tie that much more closely to insecurity in your beliefs than anything else. Convincing other people to believe the same thing as you bolsters your own conviction that your right ties back into ego and inferiority complex's as well. I've never met anyone who is extremely comfortable in their own beliefs and embraces the inherent contradictions that belief requires (atheist, catholic, etc) who feels the need to shove them down other peoples throats at the point of a sword or under the weight of a text. (And yes, atheism requires the same blind faith, a priori assumption that faith does. Which ever way you lean everything can become self consistent, but to operate in either system requires and unsupported assumption. Lack of of evidence in and of itself is not evidence. )

 

And archies' right, the ability to envelop seemingly contradictory beliefs is a beautiful thing. To think of everything only in terms of dichotomies is a uniquely western/classical greek failing.

 

 

 

oh yeah!

 

Edited February 1, 2007 by selkirk

[StevenSeagal]

People realize that blugeoning someone over the head with your thoughts doesn't work when you are sitting across from them.

 

Tell that to my brother's in-laws. At the Thanksgiving table, I could feel the mother's eyes burning a hole in me everytime I reached for the wine. Alcohol is the absolute work of the devil himself. In her eyes, I might as well have stood up and yelled, "FUCK YOU GOD!"

 

[StevenSeagal]

SATAN

 

Holy crap....STFU.... you moralizing chumps.

 

 

hey kevbone,

Why don't you go play upstairs while the adults talk?

 

[archenemy]

People realize that blugeoning someone over the head with your thoughts doesn't work when you are sitting across from them.

 

Tell that to my brother's in-laws. At the Thanksgiving table, I could feel the mother's eyes burning a hole in me everytime I reached for the wine. Alcohol is the absolute work of the devil himself. In her eyes, I might as well have stood up and yelled, "FUCK YOU GOD!"

I hear you brother. I get the Mormon talk from my grandfather every time we speak. Can you imagine trying to get me to shut up and have some babies? My heart goes out to the man for trying so hard for so many years. It is actually impressive.

[kevbone]

Adults? Where?

[Seahawks]

People realize that blugeoning someone over the head with your thoughts doesn't work when you are sitting across from them.

 

Tell that to my brother's in-laws. At the Thanksgiving table, I could feel the mother's eyes burning a hole in me everytime I reached for the wine. Alcohol is the absolute work of the devil himself. In her eyes, I might as well have stood up and yelled, "FUCK YOU GOD!"

 

Too bad there is such intolerant people out there that give religion bad name. I see those people on TV all the time, They make me sick. But don't judge everything based on the bad apples. There is bad apples in anything.

[archenemy]

I really hope, kevbone, that over time you will begin to distinguish which threads are fun and require no thought and which ones invite a true discussion.

[pink]

BAN RELIGION!!!!!!!

[archenemy]

People realize that blugeoning someone over the head with your thoughts doesn't work when you are sitting across from them.

 

Tell that to my brother's in-laws. At the Thanksgiving table, I could feel the mother's eyes burning a hole in me everytime I reached for the wine. Alcohol is the absolute work of the devil himself. In her eyes, I might as well have stood up and yelled, "FUCK YOU GOD!"

 

Too bad there is such intolerant people out there that give religion bad name. I see those people on TV all the time, They make me sick. But don't judge everything based on the bad apples. There is bad apples in anything.

I think if it weren't for my grandfather, I'd consider evangelizers bad apples as well. I guess I could even put them in the same boat as Athiests. However, he is my grandpa. Athiests are my friends, as well as religious "nuts" and spiritual yogis. What I find works for me right now is just accepting that this is God's way of introducing new ideas to me or inviting me to challenge my own. I consider those people a blessing and my heart opens to them quite easily.

[selkirk]

I had a friend at work several years ago who was a jack mormon in southern Idaho(she was early 40's) who got a call at work one day followed by a serious ass chewing from her mom.

 

Her first instinct, oh god, someone I know saw me tending bar the other night. Turns out someone had seen her in a coffee shop and called her mom to tell on her We both thought it was funny as hell Was a very interesting summmer.

 

I think the most surreal experience was that after spending an hour outside working out in the park, a very nice fellow came over and invited me to a prayer meeting while I was sitting in lotus, wearing a gi, and reading the Tao Te Ching. I politely declined.

[pink]

eric b-- our society is far more skewed towards religion than it is for the athiests. evolutions is not a theory, it belongs in a science class, creationism belongs in a social studies class. teach it there, i don't care but don't teach my child religion in science class. please. in my son's grade school, there was once a reading of the story of jesus's birth and another christmas related story the next year. gee--way to keep that religion out of the classroom. there wasn't a story about hannukah or ramadan or shiva. just jesus.

 

my son has been told on several occasions that his mom is going to hel b/c we don't go to church. gee thanks. 'preciate that nice warm fuzzy bit of christianity.

 

I knew this was coming back to the evolution debate again. Once again Evolution is a Theory. It takes just as much faith to beleive in evolution. So please don't try to teach my son something that is your religion (evoluction). You want to beleive you came from nothing fine, but don't shove that crap down my or my sons throat. I personally beleive they should leave eloution and creation out of classroom and teach science. There is plently to learn about the elements and how they work, that everyone can agree on. Science can move forward.

 

 

so are you saying evolution is bunk on all levels?

 

 

 

FUCK JESUS , FUCK GOD STRIKE ME DOWN PLEASE SO I DON'T HAVE TO SHARE A PLANET WITH SEAHAWKS ANYMORE.

 

anyone who would take on the user name of a nfl team is cheddar in my book anyway.

[archenemy]

Interesting. Why do you feel like that experience was surreal?

[minx]

Would anyone care to try to prove that God exists?

 

Like to see you prove he doesn't.

 

can't prove a negative.

[kevbone]

I really hope, kevbone, that over time you will begin to distinguish which threads are fun and require no thought and which ones invite a true discussion.

 

Well...there is ALOT of things I wish and hope about you...but this is a FOR FUN/FOR INFORMATION site and this is the FOR FUN part of the site. So go sit on it and spin.....God is waiting.

[Seahawks]

eric b-- our society is far more skewed towards religion than it is for the athiests. evolutions is not a theory, it belongs in a science class, creationism belongs in a social studies class. teach it there, i don't care but don't teach my child religion in science class. please. in my son's grade school, there was once a reading of the story of jesus's birth and another christmas related story the next year. gee--way to keep that religion out of the classroom. there wasn't a story about hannukah or ramadan or shiva. just jesus.

 

my son has been told on several occasions that his mom is going to hel b/c we don't go to church. gee thanks. 'preciate that nice warm fuzzy bit of christianity.

 

I knew this was coming back to the evolution debate again. Once again Evolution is a Theory. It takes just as much faith to beleive in evolution. So please don't try to teach my son something that is your religion (evoluction). You want to beleive you came from nothing fine, but don't shove that crap down my or my sons throat. I personally beleive they should leave eloution and creation out of classroom and teach science. There is plently to learn about the elements and how they work, that everyone can agree on. Science can move forward.

 

 

so are you saying evolution is bunk on all levels?

 

 

 

FUCK JESUS , FUCK GOD STRIKE ME DOWN PLEASE SO I DON'T HAVE TO SHARE A PLANET WITH SEAHAWKS ANYMORE.

 

anyone who would take on the user name of a nfl team is cheddar in my book anyway.

 

LOL nice post. Not sure what your doing with your post. Being funny, Being an ass, or just an angry person. Three way I could go.

 

1. Evolution I beleive in micro not macro. But see your willing to hate me over this I think.

2. Maybe angry with God for somereason? Maybe being funny? who knows?

3. Seahawk name. Hell this coming from someone with "pink" and a "666" LOL okay you must be taking the humor route.

[kevbone]

Would anyone care to try to prove that God exists?

 

Like to see you prove he doesn't.

 

can't prove a negative.

 

Damn minx...you the shit.

[Seahawks]

I really hope, kevbone, that over time you will begin to distinguish which threads are fun and require no thought and which ones invite a true discussion.

 

Well...there is ALOT of things I wish and hope about you...but this is a FOR FUN/FOR INFORMATION site and this is the FOR FUN part of the site. So go sit on it and spin.....God is waiting.

Kevbone you may not beleive in God but if he does exist I wouldn't mock him or God might decide to prove to you he does exist!! LOL

[archenemy]

I really hope, kevbone, that over time you will begin to distinguish which threads are fun and require no thought and which ones invite a true discussion.

 

Well...there is ALOT of things I wish and hope about you...but this is a FOR FUN/FOR INFORMATION site and this is the FOR FUN part of the site. So go sit on it and spin.....God is waiting.

What is wrong with you?

[selkirk]

Interesting. Why do you feel like that experience was surreal?

 

At the time it just was. Not necessarily contradictory, but was just very odd to be approached in that context at that moment by someone with a missionary perspective while reading a text that I doubt he would have approved of in anything but a purely acadamic, studying the enemy kind of way, yet which was completely capable of absorbing his own belief system without a hickup.

 

 

[Seahawks]

I really hope, kevbone, that over time you will begin to distinguish which threads are fun and require no thought and which ones invite a true discussion.

 

Well...there is ALOT of things I wish and hope about you...but this is a FOR FUN/FOR INFORMATION site and this is the FOR FUN part of the site. So go sit on it and spin.....God is waiting.

What is wrong with you?

 

One of two things.

 

1. By being a prick he thinks he will get the approval of others here.

2. He's just a prick.

[selkirk]

Would anyone care to try to prove that God exists?

 

Like to see you prove he doesn't.

 

can't prove a negative.

 

Both are a priori assumptions. You either choose to believe or choose not to believe. Neither can be proven or disproven, and their is no more support for one than the other.

 

The big question is, are we comfortable with the choice we've made even though it's undefendable/unprovable?

[selkirk]

Kevbone you may not beleive in God but if he does exist I wouldn't mock him or God might decide to prove to you he does exist!! LOL

 

As a good christian, Seahawks, what is your position on free will/predestination the action of God?

 

I've always thought that for the god you believe in to have meaning he can't take action in this world.

[archenemy]

Interesting. Why do you feel like that experience was surreal?

 

At the time it just was. Not necessarily contradictory, but was just very odd to be approached in that context at that moment by someone with a missionary perspective while reading a text that I doubt he would have approved of in anything but a purely acadamic, studying the enemy kind of way, yet which was completely capable of absorbing his own belief system without a hickup.

 

Here are your assumptions:

1. His perspective was missionary (maybe he was just hitting on you)

2. He probably wouldn't approve of the I Ching (maybe it was his stepping stone into his current religion and therefore he connected with you on that)

3. The enemy. Adversarial thinking, as well as the whole "shoving your beliefs down my gullet" seems to stem from this impression

4. This person is the one man who was able to absorb his own belief system (in contrary to your earlier post that talked about all people holding contratictory beliefs and times of doubt).

 

I think it is facinating to see things from a different point of view (especially b/c I wasn't there, so I get to make up a whole bunch of my own assumptions that are removed from the situation).

 

I think it makes sense to approach a person who already shows a level of comfort with an aspect of spirituality and invite that person to see another aspect.

 

Plus, I bet you look cute sitting in Lotus.

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

Neither can be proven or disproven, and their is no more support for one than the other.

 

 

For a lighthearted take on this, search youtube for "Mr. Deity" (there may be a mrdeity.com, too--dunno for sure). Pretty funny bit from the guy who does the design & layout work for Skeptic magazine. The one on the 6th day of creation is amusing food for thought on how much sense it makes to believe in an omnipotent, benevolent creator who is OK with genocides, torture, and tsunamis.

[StevenSeagal]

 

The big question is, are we comfortable with the choice we've made even though it's undefendable/unprovable?

 

Maybe that's the problem. Evidently, many aren't very comfortable. And I would guess that certain zealots subconsciously figure that by converting everyone to their belief system and eliminating conflicting outside opinions, it will help ease their own insecurities about their belief system.

 

The problem I have is the way organized religions use fear as a tool to embrace the belief- "better you believe than take your chances and not believe, cause if you're wrong, you'll spend eternity in hell". How many people in an unstable and insecure life situation could say no to that? "What if you're wrong??" Embracing the belief system may indeed help them stabilize their life, but that which is entered (psychologically speaking) into because of fear, in my opinion, cannot be a whole action- it's fragmented. So when people say they have faith in God, how serious are they? Are they having faith really for God, or are they having faith out of fear of going to hell, or for the enticement of heavenly rewards? In the latter cases their 'faith' is entirely based in self-interest, so is that really about God or themselves? You've come full circle again. For many, it's about one's self and not about "God".