Dechristo Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 there is no riddance of the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 The fact that Allende had already usurped Chile's constitution by ignoring over 7000 Supreme court rulings and laws rendered him illigitimate. A leader who is elected and then lets the mob shred the nation's guiding documents is no longer just. Â Right you are. But the coup could have solved the problem by removing Allende from power and putting him and his people on trial for violations of the law. They could have then had new elections and let the people decide what's next- given Allende's failing popularity, it's pretty unlikely the leftists would have retained power. This seems to be exactly what is happening in recent, non-violent coups in Thailand and Fiji. Perhaps Allende's supporters would have forcibly resisted, but there are ways to retain law and order without pulling the trigger on everyone. Allende's wrongs, and an intense dislike for the political ideals he stood for, in no way justified what followed. Â Â That aside, you're leaving out one important distinction re communist totalitarianism versus nationalist/military dicatorships: While the later is usually content suppressing political opposition, communism reaches its tentacles into every aspect of individual freedom - personal, political and economic - and renders its population state-dependent. I stand by my stated preference. While there are many governing systems that humans can chose to live under, communism ranks dead last IMO. Â Okay, point taken. I suppose if someone held a gun to my head and forced me to choose between living under Castro or Pinochet, I'd choose the latter because there's some badass climbing in the south of Chile and I could sneak over the border to climb in Bariloche also. And I don't like the tropics for much longer than a week at a time. Â Seriously though...I admit it'd be a lot easier to stay under the political radar in 70's Chile than in Cuba. But either way you're still at one level or another living in fear of the leadership. What sort of life is that? More on point, I refuse to make statements like "at least he wasn't a communist" that in some small way diminish the horrors he inflicted on his people. We can talk about which political system we'd choose not to live under all day long, but the fact is that no one in these countries really had a choice in the matter, they got what they were born with, and I doubt the killing and fear meant anything more or less to them than it would anywhere else. The occasion that has prompted this discussion is Pinochet's death, which seems an appropriate time to discuss his legacy. "Why the leftists don't hate leftist dictators just as much" could be a valid discussion point, but really, in the end all this is doing is causing people to flee to their corners and, inadvertantly, the atrocities committed by both rightist and leftist dictators begin to grow justifications. We'd be better off focusing primarily on the things we agree on- like, Big Government Killing Citizens=BAD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dberdinka Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 No doubt the guy was a real shitbag who deserved the gallows, regardless of the success of some of his economic polices. But I just love this photo. That guy was living large... Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Flush_Amazing Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Â Based on the title, I was hoping this thread was going to give me news of Kevbone's bannination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 they actually still think communism might work it's like the right that excuses Skilling and Lay. Â Fairweather- I'd give a fuck if you'd ever been to Chile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Although true, your quote attribution is incorrect. It's W's. Â And yes, we all know you've been to Chile. (Thanks mom and dad!) Having never strayed more than 100 feet from the tour bus does not lend you insight of any kind. Were you even alive in 1973? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Although true, your quote attribution is incorrect. It's W's. Â And yes, we all know you've been to Chile. (Thanks mom and dad!) Having never strayed more than 100 feet from the tour bus does not lend you insight of any kind. Were you even alive in 1973? Â Hot Carl goes on lots of expensive, international trips, impresses the local sluts with his wit, while he plies them with booze and bangs 'em in between trips to the backcountry. It's very impressive. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Where can I get a pair of those Pino-shades? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dechristo Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Pinot Noir glasses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Chetbans? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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