Attitude Posted June 4, 2002 Posted June 4, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Cpt.Caveman: [QB]Let me ring out and say that I spent 7 years in the army. I jumped out of copter and planes and jets. I can tell you that many officers and soldiers\military personnel take pride in their jobs and especially in rescue ... the pride runs deep in that area rightly so. I can only take my hat off to any of them and all of them. I hope they still remain bold and trained well. It is in some way considered training sometimes when these personnel are actually not "training" but rescuing but I am sure they get the right pay for them as well as personal and public gratitude they deserve. Indeed they are true heroes. I am sad to hear of deaths and injuries also knowing they are unavoidable. QB] I've met several mounties who are ex-military, including Rangers. These are the people that you have threatened to trundle boulders on their heads. With aggression! Quote
Rodchester Posted June 4, 2002 Posted June 4, 2002 I'm with caveman on this one... Though I will say that SOMETIMES rescues amount more to a chance tyo use all of the bright shiney new equipment than anything. What I am saying is that too often they use things / equipment and materials they doidn't really need to use...often risking lives and property when not needed. Of course it is hard to guage what is nended and it is better to bring extras and not need them than not bring enough. My bigest question on the Mt. Hood thing is: Why was the helo there at all? Why weren't the snowcat and snowmobiles up there? Couldn't they do the job with out the risk of a helo on thise slopes? Obviously I don't have all of the info...and I really hate second guessing the rescuers on the ground. I'm not saying it was wrong to bring the helo there...just asking why the snowmobiles and snow cat weren't used first? Quote
erik Posted June 4, 2002 Posted June 4, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Rodchester: I'm with caveman on this one... Though I will say that SOMETIMES rescues amount more to a chance tyo use all of the bright shiney new equipment than anything. What I am saying is that too often they use things / equipment and materials they doidn't really need to use...often risking lives and property when not needed. Of course it is hard to guage what is nended and it is better to bring extras and not need them than not bring enough. My bigest question on the Mt. Hood thing is: Why was the helo there at all? Why weren't the snowcat and snowmobiles up there? Couldn't they do the job with out the risk of a helo on thise slopes? Obviously I don't have all of the info...and I really hate second guessing the rescuers on the ground. I'm not saying it was wrong to bring the helo there...just asking why the snowmobiles and snow cat weren't used first? YOU KNOW i was driking beer last night with some homies. and they were up skiing on hood that day. they also happend to be pro ski patrollers and emts. they ended up voulenteering to ski with a sled and victim from hogsback to the lodge. said it was a bitch!! 6000ft sled ski with package is way hard work..... they drank for free Quote
iain Posted June 4, 2002 Posted June 4, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Rodchester: ...just asking why the snowmobiles and snow cat weren't used first? We got one snowcat up to Devil's Kitchen (incredible). Subsequent cats only made it partway above the Palmer. It would be a long process to get everyone down to the cats, though many who were ambulatory were evac'd that way. It's easy to beat up a patient when skiing them down from the hogsback and setting up 3 lowering stations to get them down there takes some time. At the time, several patients were considered critical. At least one had received blunt trauma to the head. It was difficult to avoid calling an air evac. The Pavehawks/Blackhawks were within their operating ceiling. Challenging flying, but not necessarily cavalier. Perhaps a Chinook would have been a safer bet (they have been historically unavailable for fast response), but the decision for the 939th and Nat'l guard helicopters was sound. The crash was unfortunate, but the fact the Nat'l guard, with their unmodified Blackhawk, was willing to go back up there to continue is testament to the fact that it was within the margin of safety. I would point out that there was very nearly another downed helicopter when an empty litter was being lowered w/o a tagline from a Nat'l guard blackhawk. If you go back and watch a video of it, you can see it whip around and almost escape the rotor wash and loop over the top. That would have been a true disaster. I'm not saying all decisions made up there were the best ones, but we were working hard to do the best we could, from basic rigging, to triage, to the big decisions. -Iain Quote
Rodchester Posted June 5, 2002 Posted June 5, 2002 iain: Thanks for that perspective. Watching from an arm chair always raises questions that usually are easily answered, from one present. But too often the arm chair gives rise to unfounded positiona dnd beliefs. That is why I didn't want to directly challenge what was done, but simply ask the questions. Thanks for your input. Quote
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