Altitude simulators

[Franko]

Has anyone tried one of those altitude simulators?

[Mark_Husbands]

you mean a hangover?

[larrythellama]

i think that general exercise with some target goals will do you better in the long run then attempting to make rapid gains thru artifical means.

[ketch]

I know of some other type athletes that use simulators to enhance performance. I don't know that they help in the hills as the only way to gain in climbing or slogging when in up ther is to actually excert effort under the same conditions. This is where the simulators fall flat. (unless of course you rent a hyperbaric chamber for a while and then move in your climbing wall, Oh wait that would be a problem too )

[Franko]

Anyone who actually knows what they're talking about have anything to share?

[gobriango]

Yes, I have an altitude tent. What do you want to know ???

[Arc]

Jesus....VO2 Max..........they are fun.

 

If you have a health plan....talk to you doctor, and they will help you find another doctor who does them, and give you a good price damn it.....lol

[layton]

live high train low increases your VO2max, so an 02deprived sleeping tent should work. but as far as cost and sexability inside one, they are stupid and also they make you look like a fucking poser.

Run at 90% max HR for an two hours every day

[Arc]

But dont forget a smoke break though.

[JackY]

 

Anyone know anything about running intervals uphill, up

and down stadium steps etc., to increase VO2max?

[crackers]

First off, sorry, OP, I know nothing about the hypoxia tents in practice.

 

From 1989 to 1992, I my Vo2 max was measured at least a dozen times. At that time, I was on the US junior development bike team. I wasn't very good to be honest, but this was my take away about volume of oxygen measurements.

 

1) They suck.

2) They're almost totally inaccurate for anybody not using them on a regular basis as a consistent, scientific and controlled method. My vo2 max could vary 15% based on how long I'd been awake.

3) vo2 max is under pretty constant flux as your training cycle progresses. You can vary 20% based on your training cycle.

4) There was almost nothing known at that time about how to improve your vo2 max successfully.

 

On the other hand, improvements to your anerobic threshold and your areobic efficieny are another matter entirely.

[layton]

Anyone know anything about running intervals uphill, up

and down stadium steps etc., to increase VO2max?

 

Your exercise has nothing to do with increasing your VO2max. it's all about how hard you work.

 

now, if you want to increase your ability to tolerate lactic acid (lactic threshold) run uphill all out until you think you are seriously going to die and STOP. stop. don't move a muscle for four minutes. now run all out again!!!

do this 4 times.

call a cab home.

[Franko]

Yes, I have an altitude tent. What do you want to know ???

 

Have you used it to prepare for a high altitude climb, and was it effective?

[sean_beanntan]

A great exercise to simulate high altitude is swimming. The exercise involves working out without breathing. Swimming forces the body to exert itself during low O2 intervals.

 

Hope this helps,

[gslater]

There was an article in the Oregonian a couple of years ago about a group of Nike-sponsored runners who were living in a house in Portland that was modified and equipped to create a hypobaric environment. I think it created a pressure roughly equivalent to 8,000' or so. They'd do all their training outside at essentially sea level in PDX, but "live" at an equivalent higher altitude.

[Franko]

A great exercise to simulate high altitude is swimming. The exercise involves working out without breathing. Swimming forces the body to exert itself during low O2 intervals.

 

Hope this helps,

 

It does. Can you steer me to any urls that have more info?

[DanielHarro]

I lived in a baramoetric chamber in Alaska during training season for xc ski races. We had it set at around 8000-10000 feet. We trained at see level and slept/lived at altuitude. It worked great. They are expensive though, plus my opinion the whole altitude thing is half mental anyways, I have raced at 10,000 feet and you just need to go balls to the wall if you want to preform well. I could go both ways on the chamber. Maybe try blood doping or taking Erythropoietin in increas the number of oxygen carring hemoglobin in your blood, it will do the same thing.

Edited March 20, 2006 by DanielHarro

[Figger_Eight]

In order for the body to adapt (increased red blood cells primarily) to the lower partial pressures of oxygen at altitude, you need to live/breathe/eat/sleep at that altitude. You can't just jump in a chamber and expect your body to effectively change to something it is exposed to only 8 hours a day.

 

Increased VO2 max is the main result of training at altitude, which is simply a measure of how efficient your body is at processing oxygen - the higher the better.

 

What Mike is talking about is increasing lactate threshold, which is the body's ability to process and recycle the glycogen which accumulates locally in the muscles during max/near max exertion.

 

My 2 cents at least.

[Franko]

In order for the body to adapt (increased red blood cells primarily) to the lower partial pressures of oxygen at altitude, you need to live/breathe/eat/sleep at that altitude. You can't just jump in a chamber and expect your body to effectively change to something it is exposed to only 8 hours a day.

 

Increased VO2 max is the main result of training at altitude, which is simply a measure of how efficient your body is at processing oxygen - the higher the better.

 

What Mike is talking about is increasing lactate threshold, which is the body's ability to process and recycle the glycogen which accumulates locally in the muscles during max/near max exertion.

 

My 2 cents at least.

 

And you know this because?

[PBRstreetgang]

smoking increased hemoglobin and hematocrit, i got the red bloodcell count of a sherpa

[Figger_Eight]

This was part of my job in a previous life. If you have a different interpretation of what that stuff is - I'd love to hear it. Anyways...I thought everyone knew this stuff

[mneagle]

I looked into hypoxia tents thinking I would use them for some research into the effects of altitude on sleep during my pulmonary fellowship. They are designed to work based on the alveolar gas equation:

 

PA O2 = FIO2 (PB - PH2O) - PCO2/.8

 

PA is alveolar partial pressure of oxygen

FIO2 is the fraction of oxygen in air

PB is the barometric pressure

PH2O is the pressure of water vapor

PCO2 is the partial pressure of carbon dioxide

 

At any altitude the fraction of oxygen is always .21 (or 21%) and the parital pressure of water vapor is basically fixed in the alveoli where air is basically fully humidified. Your PCO2 is also stable unless you are hypo or hyper ventilating. As the barometric pressure drops as you go higher the partial pressure of oxygen drops in the alveoli (and consequently the partial pressure in your blood will fall). Based on these priciples, the tents are designed not to affect barometric pressure but to deliver an FIO2 lower than the typical .21 of room air. Using a chart to correlate PAO2 with altitude you can calculate the FIO2 you need to simulate that altitude while staying at the same barometric pressure. Bottom line is that provided they are able to deliver the specified FIO2 they should be able to accurately simulate altitude.

 

But why would you want to do this rather than just spending a few extra days in a beautiful place in the mountains?

 

As for VO2max, I agree with others that it shouldn't be your focus. By definition your VO2max is past your anaerobic threshold so it really only matters in sports like sprinting. Although the anaerobic threshold can be modified, once you are in shape it is very difficult to get much more improvement with additional training. The real number to work on for endurance sports is the amount of time you can maintain exercise at a level just below your anaerobic threshold. Yeah, it's impressive that Lance has a VO2 max in the 80's and an unreasonably high anaerobic threshold but what is really sets him apart is that he can keep going at 90% of his anaerobic threshold for hours. This is a factor that really can change with training.

 

I hope that was helpful.

[Franko]

This was part of my job in a previous life. If you have a different interpretation of what that stuff is - I'd love to hear it. Anyways...I thought everyone knew this stuff

 

Everyone knows lots of stuff, or thinks they do.

 

For example, I've been told that adaptation to altitude is different than just having good wind due to cardiovascular exercise. I've also been told the opposite. My own experience has supported the first theory. Some years ago I climbed Rainier with a group that included some pretty fit folks, including a marathon runner. At the time I trained by watching TV, smoking 2 packs of Kools a day, and living at sea level. I doubt that I could have run a quarter mile without stopping for breath.

 

I was the only one of the group who did not feel sick once we got above camp Shurman, and was the only one who felt good enough to climb past the schrund to the top. Since the climb was part of an AMS experiment, we all ate the same food & drank lots of water, so whatever made the difference it wasn't cardiovascular fitness.

 

If you look back at the posts you'll notice a variety of opinions, and nobody save mneagle has put forth any credentials. And I don't know what Layton posted; he's been on my ignore list for a long time.

[Franko]

But why would you want to do this rather than just spending a few extra days in a beautiful place in the mountains?

 

I hope that was helpful.

 

It was. Thanks. What's your opinion of figger8's statement that 8 hours a day in a simulator will not make a difference?

 

Spending a few extra days at altitude would be great, but I live at sea level and often am stuck climbing on the weekend. Altitude has never been a problem with me, which doesn't mean it won't be in the future, but I'm more concerned with my daughter, who wants to start going into the mountains with her dad. Since I don't know her reaction to altitude, and people have died from AMS on Rainier, I'm looking at options. Google led me to altitude simulator companies, which all seem to claim to make you ready to do K2 in a day, so I posted here get more knowledge.

[ketch]

You post some good reasons Franko. Especially since I think most PNW climbers live close to sea level but venture out. I think the first item is to get acquainted with the signs of various altitude disorders. I do not know of anyone that has died from altitude that did not also ignore the signs. Next the extra day thing is about all it takes. For most people going to 14k from sea level in a day is unreasonable and two days is sometimes challengeing. Around here just do the approach and climb on seperate days and enjoy the climb. Especially with new folk most of them are not into the car to car dash. By the time they are, you will already know how they respond to altitude.

 

If wer'e talking time with the daughter you definatley can find better ways to spend the money.