Mr_D Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 Skinned up the ridge between Heather Canyon and Newton Creek on Sunday 1/15/06. Skinned up to about 6,000' then skied the North slope down into Newton Creek. On the skin back up 2 members of the party were caught in a slide. No injuries, but 1 member lost both poles and both skis. Poles and 1 ski easily recovered, but 1 ski still missing. Prior to skiing the slope we dug a pit and found a weak layer approx 24" down. The slope is northfacing and heavily wind loaded. We made the decision to not ski the slope and instead skied the trees. However, on the ascent the members involved accidentily skinnned too far into the suspect slope due to lack of visbility. Take care in the Backcountry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goatboy Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 Thanks for posting this cautionary tale, Mr. D. Anyone with more avy. training/assessment skills than me want to respond to a general question about skiing trees vs. open slopes? My understanding is that trees on suspect slopes can provide a false sense of security -- in other words, if the trees are widely spaced enough to ski through, they're probably not anchoring the slope as well as one might assume? I know this question is wide open and subjective, and different snowpacks could provide a myriad of different answers -- but I'm looking for a "rule of thumb" or just confirmation that trees don't always equal an adequate snowpack anchor..... - Also, Glad that you and your party is okay, Mr. D! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_D Posted January 16, 2006 Author Share Posted January 16, 2006 Good point and question. We made the decision that the trees were safer due to the fact that the slope angle was slightly less, there were a substantial number of trees, and the snow was not nearly as wind affected. And, let's be honest, the snow was better for skiing with less of a crust. Open for thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 Clearly Mr. D is sketchy! What is this, 2 for 2 now? In some avalanche courses you will be told if the trees are skiable, it can slide there. However, what is skiable is subjective. Trees do not always equal safety. However, a big stand of old trees can indicate they do not see much activity. Practical experience shows that skiing trees is usually safer than skiing a wide open, wind-loaded bowl such as upper Newton Creek. The base of Newton Creek is filled with dinky little trees and broken big ones, suggesting the slope releases frequently. It's essentially Heather Canyon w/o avalanche control. edit to add: the trees at Newton are incredibly good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaee Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 I think another thing to think about is trauma when sneaking thru the trees. Not only do the trees need to be closely spaced for any significant anchoring to occur, but if the slide does come pouring thru the trees you will get broken into little tiny pieces much quicker. 1/3 of folks caught in slides are done just from trauma. That aspect is notorious. I know several people who have witnessed slides over there. One was skinning up and had someone else cut loose a slide above them. He fell over trying to rip his skins to get away and had to lay there flailing as the slide rolled up and stopped 10 feet away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barkernews Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 Wow. That's scary. What was the avy danger on Sunday below 6,000? Wasn't it considerable or high? Glad you're OK. Thanks for sharing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_D Posted January 17, 2006 Author Share Posted January 17, 2006 "MT HOOD AREA- Considerable avalanche danger above 6000 feet and moderate below early Sunday. Decreasing danger becoming moderate below 7000 feet Sunday afternoon through Sunday night. Significantly increasing danger Monday becoming considerable below 7000 feet. Further increasing danger Monday afternoon and night becoming high below 7000 feet. " NWAC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodney_Sofich Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Hey, glad to read everything was ok. Have you reported this to the FS or NWAC? Here is a link that will contain a data base for future info and education. Take care!! http://www.nwac.noaa.gov/accidents.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 I have seen slides in the trees, but have seen more slides in the open glades. In some conditions the trees are safer than the open slopes, but when the snow wants to go, then even the trees are no help. Also, trees can hurt you if they are threatened by a big slide from above. There is no alternative to evaluating every run on it's own terms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retired Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 I was caught in a small sluff while skiing Meadows Friday. took a little break below cliffs heading to yoda bowl to size up conditions in the bowl and the cliff released above me. Went over my head and took me about 15 feet, had me hyper ventillating like a junior high kid on his first date. I wasn't poaching either the private reserve had just been opened and it was our second pass thru. first time in 30 years of skiing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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