Wilderness First Responder

[Gary_Yngve]

Gary,

Why the hate, bro? Seems to me a lot of EMTs are smart hardworking folks. Probably many of our city's Medic One paramedics (who are highly trained professionals) started out as EMTs.

 

 

I have the utmost respect for firefighters and paramedics and the years of training they go through. Their jobs are very different from the AMR $10/hr dude who's not looking for any career advancement.

 

What I was trying to say was that I was under the impression that as a whole, folks in a WFR course are going to be more enthusiastic and motivated than in an EMT course, and you have the connection of the outdoors to tie yall together.

 

Everyone in my WFR course, ranging from age 18 to 68, was gung-ho about taking the course and wanted to do the best they could. I would have felt my education compromised had I had classmates who didn't take the course seriously.

[Gary_Yngve]

On another note, I've been recommended to take a WFR recert instead of a WFA, even though they both count as the same.

[wdietsch]

.... a bunch of young middle and upper class slackers looking to get a job in the "industry" to go with their soul patch, birkenstocks, carhartts and copiously stickered and brandname bedazzled paraphenalia.

 

[Gary_Yngve]

Many people come out of WFR courses thinking they are joe rescuer. Kindof frightening the serious decisions you are making after only 80 hrs of instruction and zero hrs of experience.

 

The two things I've come to realize are:

1) It's not a good idea to get badly sick/hurt in the wilderness.

2) Unless you're a professional rescuer constantly getting practice, you are going to make mistakes.

[cluck]

But cluck, if you had a WFR and were working for NOLS and had a standing order from their medical advisor that it's ok to reduce dislocated shoulders, patellas, or fingers when more than X hours from definitive medical care, then you would be in the green to perform it in the backcountry while working for NOLS.

 

Precicely! It's just that simple.

[Gary_Yngve]

If you've scheduling issues look into taking an EMT course from your local community college or an OEC course from your local ski patrol. They also tend to be cheaper. like $1-300 bucks and evening classes a couple times a week vs. a week off whatever and $7-900 for WFR

 

My WFR at WWU was under $500.

EMT at North Seattle CC is $600 + books/equipment.

 

If a WFR costs more than $500, it probably includes lodging.

 

Where do you know of for a cheaper EMT?

[cj001f]

If you've scheduling issues look into taking an EMT course from your local community college or an OEC course from your local ski patrol. They also tend to be cheaper. like $1-300 bucks and evening classes a couple times a week vs. a week off whatever and $7-900 for WFR

 

My WFR at WWU was under $500.

EMT at North Seattle CC is $600 + books/equipment.

 

If a WFR costs more than $500, it probably includes lodging.

 

Where do you know of for a cheaper EMT?

 

OEC is $80-100 through your local ski patrol Clackamas Community college was something like $2-300 for residents, Ventura Community College is similar for residents. Apparently WA wants to keep people stupid. The books are a good thing so you can review and perhaps keep competent. It's merely another option; one that's served me well. To each their own.

[Gary_Yngve]

3) A WFR course will consist of your peers. An EMT course will consist largely of underachieving folks who didn't go to college and are looking for a career of ambulance driving for $10 an hour. (Please contest this point here (I have sources who tell me this is true), and please save any flaming of my elitism for Spray.)

Dude, you are a fucking arrogant prick aren't you?

 

You're absolutely right. My comment was inappropriate here, and I apologize. If you get to know me, I'm not an arrogant prick or a social retard -- I've just been stressed out / burned out for the past month and a half or so, and it's showing, especially in impersonal electronic communications.

[MysticNacho]

 

I have the utmost respect for firefighters and paramedics and the years of training they go through. Their jobs are very different from the AMR $10/hr dude who's not looking for any career advancement.

 

I work for AMR. There are about 350 of us in King County. To say that none of us are motivated is mostly incorrect.

Most of my coworkers are highly motivated, very knowledgable and smart people who's medical knowledge is far beyond just an EMT's training. Most people use AMR as a stepping stone for better things. I know a lot of people in nursing school, 3 currently enrolled in paramedic programs, and one in the UW Medical program. Most of the other people work there while they are in school, to get into one of the above programs or a fire department. These people work for AMR because that it is excellent experience and has a very flexible schedule.

 

That said, there are plenty of people working for AMR that are completely unmotivated pieces of shit and terrify me. Luckily, most of these people stick to the patient transfer interfacility cars (easier) rather than the cars that work in the 911 system.

[MysticNacho]

Gary,

 

Why the hate, bro? Seems to me a lot of EMTs are smart hardworking folks. Probably many of our city's Medic One paramedics (who are highly trained professionals) started out as EMTs.

 

 

On this note, all King county firefighters are emt's, with the same training as AMR. I am 95% sure that all the medics also started as EMT's. And many of the medic's had their start at AMR.

 

Don't get me wrong. I may be trying to set some biased minds straight, but I hate AMR as much as the next man. Hell, we almost went on strike recently!

[AlpineK]

3) A WFR course will consist of your peers. An EMT course will consist largely of underachieving folks who didn't go to college and are looking for a career of ambulance driving for $10 an hour. (Please contest this point here (I have sources who tell me this is true), and please save any flaming of my elitism for Spray.)

Dude, you are a fucking arrogant prick aren't you?

 

You're absolutely right. My comment was inappropriate here, and I apologize. If you get to know me, I'm not an arrogant prick or a social retard -- I've just been stressed out / burned out for the past month and a half or so, and it's showing, especially in impersonal electronic communications.

 

Gary in the future try and think a little more. I know a lot of people who never had the opportunity/desire to go to college yet they are bright people who contribute a lot more to the world then you appear to.

[plark42]

I took a WFR course from WMI and it was very comprehensive.. NOLS certainly knows how to teach!!! there was sooo much hands on practice and mock scenarios.. it's totally worth it even if you don't plan on working as a bc leader..

[andrewbanandrew]

Thank you guys for all the input, it seems both courses are extremely good. I'm still not sure what to make of the differences between the WMA/WMI backings, but since both places have gotten glowing recommendations it seems like either would be good choice.

[andrewbanandrew]

So it seems that the course offered through WWU doesn't include lodging or food--does anyone know of a cheap way to stay up there? I was thinking of camping but at the same time that might be a hassle (driving to and from campus).

 

Even though the course run through Rescue Specialists is $150 more, it includes lodging and 2/3s of the meals...this is appealing because I wouldn't have to worry about food until the class day was over, and I'd be pretty hard pressed to stay and get 2/3s of my meals in Bellingham for a week for only $150.

 

Also, how exactly is field instruction handled? Are skills actually taught in the backcountry, or is it just say, outside in the parking lot?

 

If I were to take this course I'd either do it during spring break or during summer, and I have a feeling that it may be wiser to do it over summer when my brain isn't so frazzled from taking finals, although at the same time I think that it's an entirely different mode of learning--can anyone provide their two cents on this?

Edited January 12, 2006 by andrewbanandrew

[chelle]

The skills and drills from Rescue Associates are practiced in the "back country" which is the 30 acres of their property. The food is very good and the accomodations are also good, albeit dorm style. If you've ever stayed at a US youth hostel where you shared a room with one other person, had a common bathroom down the hall, and had a couple chores you had to do, you will find this to be similar.

 

I would be surprised if you felt disappointed after the class. There is a good balance between lecture and practicing skills as you learn them. They have everyone in the class lead a team and work in a support role, they give everyone an opportunity to debrief after scenarios about how they felt it went and to provide constructive feedback to your peers in the class. Tom, the lead instructor, also uses some great stage make-up to simulate injuries to help with assessment during drills and scenarios. They also provide training/certification in full professional rescuer CRP which includes infants and children.

[Gary_Yngve]

For the WWU one:

 

Most of the practicals (usually at least three per day) were in the parking lot just outside the classroom. It worked out really well because there wasn't much time lost on the transition and it split up the dady and kept your attention going. And you got the experience of working with different people each time.

 

We did one two-hour in the dark and rain on a muddy hillside in the woods, which was really good too.

 

There's enough WWU undergrads taking WFR that it's not too hard to find somewhere to crash. I think the first night I split a motel with three others and then we had a place to stay for free the remaining nights. One night I came back from Seattle after midnight so I slept in a stairwell on campus.

 

For food, I brought an electric water heater and had oatmeal, sandwiches, etc. for breakfast/lunch.

 

As for when to take the course... it's a lot of material in a short time, so you want to be awake/focused for it. It's different enough from m field of study that I wasn't too frazzled. I'd highly recommend reading the book before taking the course (they shipped us our books two months early).