Bolt on crampons?

[John Frieh]

BD Raptor or Grivel Racing Crampon... anybody used/tried/own/know somebody/etc etc?

 

Give me a shout if so... I'd like to pick your brain

 

s if you can help me out

[Weekend_Climberz]

A couple of dudes at the Cascade Crags Dry Ice Fest were using these. They looked pretty knarly. I don't have any experience with them though, but I know somebody out there does.

[John Frieh]

AlpineDave borrowed Roger's fruit boots for the expert route (cough cough cheater cough cough) and Todd (doesn't post here) had someone's homemade pair which had what looked like grade 8s bolted on (not a pon I am considering). I've talked to 2 people so far but both have only used the raptor (and just so happen to work for BD)... was hoping to hear a little more about the racing... I know bigwalling has a pair... anybody else?

 

Edit: with that said the raptor does sound like a good pon.

Edited November 11, 2005 by NOLSe

[dylan_taylor]

It took a few hours and a few drillbits...

[jesselillis]

dylan_ the nuts on the other side of the bolts don't irritate your feet? do they make t-nuts that size, or what did you do so that you arent standing on the ends of those 8 bolts (inserts on top)? i cant imagine you drilled into the sole of the boot from the inside to inset the nuts...

[dylan_taylor]

The boots are perfectly comfortable, and no sharp points hit me in the feet. There are no T-nuts (or any nuts) on the inside, i used stainless steel drywall-type screws, and i predrilled the holes into the plastic bottoms of the boots. I took the boots to the hardware store so i could make sure i didn't buy screws that were too long ( that would hurt! ), but hey, it was just a jury-rig solution, nothing special, and nothing pretty.

 

Jesse, I think you are on to something with the T-nut idea. There are nuts that look like T-nuts, but without the little friction-activated sharp hook thingy's that are on real t-nuts (the kind designed for wood) Instead, there are T-nut-like nuts at the hardware store (kind of like the nuts you see inside of a newer pair of downhill ski boots) that you could use. If I had to do it all again I would go this route. Just drill the holes all the way thru your soles (yes, into the inside of the boot) insert the nut into the hole from the inside, and screw in a machine screw (maybe even allen-head if you want to make it look as fancy as those jobs from La Sportiva, Lowa, Kayland, etc...), cover it up with a regular cheap insole or superfeet or whatever, and you are ready to party.

 

The toughest part for my little project was drilling thru the metal on my bionics. I went thru a couple of bits. I drilled more holes than I needed, in case I ever wanted to change the configuration of the 'pons, or rotate the front bit a little less aggressivley.

 

Good luck. Someone with more creativity and tools could do it far better than I did.

[dylan_taylor]

THe other thing i wish i would have gotten are those silly little rubber crampon-covers that you get at REI that all the Musketeers always seem to have. I had always poo-pood those things, favoring crampon bags or tyvek mailing envelopes as my crampon coverage of choice, but now, with the difficulty of carrying razor-sharp fruit boots in my flimsy rucksack to and fro, it gets me thinking...

[sobo]

OK, I'm going to go waaaaaay out on a limb here and show my total old-skewl-ness and ask the obvious questions...

 

Why would you want to permanently bolt/screw a pair of crampons to your boots?

And without a heel, no less?

Do you, then, also need a separate set of footwear for the approach?

Is this solely a dry tooling outfit?

Or do you actually take this affair into alpine environs?

 

Serious answers only, if you're reading this, CPB/GGK.

[Couloir]

OK, I'm going to go waaaaaay out on a limb here and show my total old-skewl-ness and ask the obvious questions...

 

Why would you want to permanently bolt/screw a pair of crampons to your boots?

And without a heel, no less?

Do you, then, also need a separate set of footwear for the approach?

Is this solely a dry tooling outfit?

Or do you actually take this affair into alpine environs?

 

Serious answers only, if you're reading this, CPB/GGK.

I was afraid the ask the same question. Thanks for stepping up.

[sobo]

You owe me a beer! Two or six if I get trounced on this thread.

[Couloir]

I'll back you up 100%!

[John Frieh]

Why would you want to permanently bolt/screw a pair of crampons to your boots?

 

From Grivel NA: Modern sport mixed routes and ice-climbing competitions are so steep that equipment weight has a decisive influence on muscular fatigue. The energy cost of weight on the feet is multiplied due to the length of the lever (the legs), and reducing this load allows sustained movements that would be otherwise impossible to execute. Lightweight, bolt-on crampons like the Racing are attached to extremely light rigid-soled shoes to achieve performance similar to rock shoes.

 

From rock and ice: Bolting crampon to boot eliminates all the straps and levers attendant to removable crampons, trimming weight and bulk. Also, because the thick, traditional lug sole is replaced by a thin, smooth one, the crampon sits closer to your foot, ratcheting up performance. Outfitted with a pair of these sleds, you can climb ice as if cragging at Sporty Rock—pressing against “holds” such as blobs and scoops rather than whacking them, Lizzie Borden-style. You also expend less energy swinging your feet and are more tuned in to the holds, be they ice or rock.

 

From Climbing Mag: Start by bolting your crampons directly to your boots. This will give you a lighter and more precise tool for effective footwork on technical rock sections. Also, it’s a more secure method for attaching the crampon to the boot than a normal step-in system — very important when you’re dangling from heel spurs.

 

And without a heel, no less?

 

Most, if not all fruit boots do come with a heel piece/section. Some also have a spur.

 

Do you, then, also need a separate set of footwear for the approach?

 

Yes.

 

Is this solely a dry tooling outfit?

 

Drytool or mixed mostly but basically anything super hard.

 

 

Or do you actually take this affair into alpine environs?

 

Kinda depends on your defintion of alpine. Some of the multipitch mixed routes in BC, etc have alpine approaches and are on a mountain so if that is your definition of alpine then yes. I can think of 2 routes I'd like to try this winter that will require fruit boots.

 

Anything else?

[Couloir]

Thanks John!

[daler]

I have built four pairs of these boots now and Mini T-nuts is th way to go. You can find them and any specialized fastener store.

The trick with the tnuts is getting them started- don't use the size bolt that will be permanetely used to get it set. Use a longer one and set the the tnut and then back out the long bolt and use the correct size. Make sure you get all the correct size bolts started before you do you final tightening run.

 

cheers,

 

Dale

[sobo]

What Couloir said. Thanks, John.

My years doth showeth...

[John Frieh]

The day you convince yourself that you are too "old" to try something new is the day you actually are old! You are never to old to try new things! Come on out and drytool sometime! No fruitboots required!

 

PS: Happy Birthday!

[rhyang]

btw Any advantages of these other bolt-ons over the Darts ? Other than I guess being able to replace the frontpoints without taking the whole front off...

 

(not that I am ever going to be good enough to need fruit boots - just curious)

[sobo]

Thanks for the invitation, and the birthday sentiments. I'll take "fruit booting" under consideration...