Partners and gear

[Gary_Yngve]

Well, he's a Euro, so I gave him some slack there.

[archenemy]

yes, but you should still charge. Its only fair.

[Matt_Anderson]

"I printed out maps, paid for permits, led pitches, and brought most of the gear we used"

 

If leading pitches is somehow relevant to paying for permits and providing gear, how about I lead and use my gear b/c I prefer it. You can pay me for leading on a per pitch basis. If we reach 10 pitches, I'll throw in a the gas money and a sticker that says "you're a star" for free.

Edited October 26, 2005 by Matt_Anderson

[Peter_Puget]

Two biners? I’d forget about them. Your partner is right => stuff gets mixed up and lost all the time. I always figured if I am climbing with a buddy and something gets lost/stuck forget about it. If I am borrowing something then that is a different story.

 

I'd advise that you continue to climb with him as sooner or later he'll forget to take the the stuff he's taken from you off his rack and you'll be able to get it back.

[RuMR]

speaking of...i owe you some BIG CAMS...

[EWolfe]

Partners that are ho-hum about checking for your gear on their racks show a lack of comeraderie and concern that may well translate itself to climbing.

 

Forget the 'biners and move on.

[rhyang]

I hereby exonerate him from all guilt. Not because I have found my biners. Just because I feel charitable this morning.

 

In fact, go and buy some stuff from him (I'm assuming it's his stuff, anyway) ...

[Peter_Puget]

No hurry getting them back but I do have a project in mind for next spring that will need them. And probably your big stuff as well. I may need your widecrack skills too.

 

I am working 7 days a week right now

[olyclimber]

oooooohhhhh....the Big Stuff!

[Dru]

I am working 7 days a week right now

 

Do your knees get tired?

[Peter_Puget]

Body to Body, Job to Job

[RuMR]

and Dust to Dust...such is life...and death...

[TimL]

PP - Get out and friggin climb.

 

I remember climbing with a good friend of mine in Banff. Some place we lost a screw. We decided to split the cost. Then, he comes back and points out that one of his ice screws had the tip grinded just a little bit down because it hit rock. A really small blemish. And he blamed me for doing it. Being a nice guy, I traded him screws. His BD for my grivel. Two years after we are chatting after climbing and he trys to get me to retrade screws. This time he says he wants his BD back because he doesn´t like Grivels. I called bullshit.

 

I have another partner that everytime he lost a piece of gear he would search my harness, then his pack, then my pack before always finding the lost whatever on his harness or on the ground next to him. Really annoying, but if you know this person it is really funny.

 

Funny thing. Both people are engineer-type people.

[tomtom]

The biggest money issue I've had was when my driver asked for money to cover gas, maintenance, and insurance, and his insurance calculations were, I only drive on the weekends, so since this was a weekend trip, you're covering half of insurance for the full week (e.g. 1% of his annual bill). I decided to pay up and in the future either don't climb with him or tell him I'm not chipping in for insurance.

 

That is the best story ever. I can't believe someone actually had the nutsack to charge you for insurance!! That is coverage for their property--not your property. Absolutely beautiful. I am going to set a little piggy bank by my front door and insist that people who walk through it contribute to my homeowner's insurance costs. I love it!!!

 

Huh?

 

The cost of owning and operating a car is significantly higher than the cost of gasoline. For example, I bought a new Subaru for $24k and I expect to get 240k miles out of the beast for a capital cost of 10 cents a mile, just for the car. Then there are additional costs of tires, maintenance, taxes, (washing the silly thing after a muddy trip), and insurance. The current reimbursement rate is around 48 cents/mile and some auto clubs say the true cost is over 60 cents/mile. Operating a car is not cheap, and folks like Gary save a significant pile of cash by not having a car.

 

Basic car insurance doesn't cover the payer's property. It covers everyone else's property and their potential medical expenses in an accident. It is a legal requirement, so why is it not an expense?

 

What is the "correct" way to proportion this real cost? By mile, time, ???

[rhyang]

Actually on this trip I also had an ice screw which hit rock and ground the teeth down. I'm pretty sure that was my doing. Anyway, ice screws wear out just like anything else - that's just how they are made.

 

We could have rapped and left gear on this trip - in that case the right thing to do there would have been to split the cost of the left gear, according to other people I have climbed with.

 

This kind of thing has only happened to me once before - went for walk-up climb on Mt. Shasta with a lawyer type and ended up missing my thermarest (we did it car-to-car and just crashed at the trailhead). I asked him if he had it afterwards, and he said no. I figured I must have left it somewhere and was getting ready to buy a new one when he emailed me saying he had just found it while going through his stuff.

[olyclimber]

These are the issues we have to deal with as climbers. Its hard work!

[Dru]

Maybe taking up stamp collecting instead will be simpler and less risky. Also, you can take a plane and taxi or bus to the stamp convention and then you don't have to be a PhD in Mathematics to figure out how much your partner owes you when you drive to the crag.

[rhyang]

I cragged ice last winter mostly with a math PhD. Stamps.com is pretty cool - you should check it out

[archenemy]

The biggest money issue I've had was when my driver asked for money to cover gas, maintenance, and insurance, and his insurance calculations were, I only drive on the weekends, so since this was a weekend trip, you're covering half of insurance for the full week (e.g. 1% of his annual bill). I decided to pay up and in the future either don't climb with him or tell him I'm not chipping in for insurance.

 

That is the best story ever. I can't believe someone actually had the nutsack to charge you for insurance!! That is coverage for their property--not your property. Absolutely beautiful. I am going to set a little piggy bank by my front door and insist that people who walk through it contribute to my homeowner's insurance costs. I love it!!!

 

Huh?

 

The cost of owning and operating a car is significantly higher than the cost of gasoline. For example, I bought a new Subaru for $24k and I expect to get 240k miles out of the beast for a capital cost of 10 cents a mile, just for the car. Then there are additional costs of tires, maintenance, taxes, (washing the silly thing after a muddy trip), and insurance. The current reimbursement rate is around 48 cents/mile and some auto clubs say the true cost is over 60 cents/mile. Operating a car is not cheap, and folks like Gary save a significant pile of cash by not having a car.

 

Basic car insurance doesn't cover the payer's property. It covers everyone else's property and their potential medical expenses in an accident. It is a legal requirement, so why is it not an expense?

 

What is the "correct" way to proportion this real cost? By mile, time, ???

 

Reread my quote. I never said it wasn't an expense. Charging other people for this expense that YOU opted to assume is hilarious. This answers your question about "proportioning" the cost.

 

What a joke.

[Gary_Yngve]

Tom, what I had issue with was that he was charging me for a week of insurance, not just a weekend of insurance, because of his argument that he only drove on the weekends. So I ended up having to pay at least an extra $10.

 

I understand that cars cost more than just the gas. But costs like insurance are stuff you'll have to pay anyway, whether you drive on that trip or not. What are they going to charge me next? The amortized cost of increased insurance rates given the low probability of a wreck? The cost of their street parking at home? I pay my drivers generously because I want to keep my drivers. More often than not, I've been refused when I've offered money, or I've been told that's too much.

[Ireneo_Funes]

So he charged you for a week of insurance - who cares? That'll cover the wear & tear and maintenance stuff that you never have to worry about, not having a car.

 

I haven't owned a car since '98. When I'm riding with someone I always try to give them more than straight gas money, 'cause I remember how expensive it was keeping my car running, what with insurance & repairs, etc.

[Gary_Yngve]

This was in addition to wear&tear. I thought I was being generous with my gas plus some, and then he tacks on the insurance crap. It might have been even more like $20, something like he had to buy a full year, but he was only in the states for less time. It was enough for me to think wtf.

[rhyang]

I once had a guy try to charge me some exorbitant per-mile rate for carpooling on a snowcamping trip. My understanding is that not a lot of people make the mistake of carpooling with this guy twice.

[tomtom]

I can't believe someone actually had the nutsack to charge you for insurance!! That is coverage for their property--not your property.

 

Here's your quote.

[tomtom]

I understand that cars cost more than just the gas. But costs like insurance are stuff you'll have to pay anyway, whether you drive on that trip or not. What are they going to charge me next? The amortized cost of increased insurance rates given the low probability of a wreck? The cost of their street parking at home? I pay my drivers generously because I want to keep my drivers. More often than not, I've been refused when I've offered money, or I've been told that's too much.

 

Again. A certain level of insurance is *required by law* to drive a car. What is the *correct* way to proportion that expense?

 

Anyone?

 

Actually, at one time someone floated the idea that the gov't should provide No-Fault auto insurance for all and that the money be generated by an additional gas tax - pay at the pump. The idea has merit.