Toast Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 Hey Old Timers, A long time ago, I was taught to tie a seat harness made from knots and 1" webbing. Can somebody refresh my memory? I want to take a buddy out climbing and don't have a spare harness that will fit him. From what I remember, I tied two figure eights on a bite for leg loops. One end was long enough to wrap around me once, the other was long enough to wrap around me twice, thus, the knot would have at least a wrap around the body. I think I would just tie the two ends off with a water knot, but a rewoven figure eight is what I remember. Think it makes a difference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fern Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 aren't there diagrams of this in Freedom of the Hills? used to be. RTFM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toast Posted June 2, 2005 Author Share Posted June 2, 2005 maybe a long long time ago. Of course, it was almost 20 years ago whe I was taught to tie a harness that way, so maybe, but not any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra_Commander Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 A water knot is fine. It allows more room to rack hexes too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fern Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 from my memory the long end needs to be long enough to wrap several times around, and you thread it through the front of leg loops (one threading per wrap). I would probably tie it off w/ a multiple fishermans, but I think any knot that you can snug up, and won't come undone would work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toast Posted June 2, 2005 Author Share Posted June 2, 2005 Yeah, that makes sense. Thanks fern Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 I can use a 48" runner and pull a loop between the legs, and one around each side of my waist, then connect with a locker and it works for me. If you are much fatter then you'd need to use a longer piece of webbing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maestro Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 I learned this diaper sling back in the '70's when real harnesses were a luxury most climbers didn't own. This is easy to demonstrate, but a bear to describe in words alone. If you can't follow this, I don't blame you. OK here goes: Take a long (at least 8') piece of 1" webbing and find the middle. Then bring the middle between your legs from the back so you are holding a sort of loop in front of you and the two ends of it are running back between your legs. Hold this in your teeth while you reach behind you on both sides and grab the two strands and bring each of them around the outside of your legs to the front, one in each hand. (Are you still with me ) Then bring both of those strands back through the loop you have in your teeth from the front in towards your body and pull the ends all the way through and drop the loop out of your teeth and pull them taut. This forms the leg loops. Then run the two ends in opposite directions around your waist until you have just enough left to tie your knot of choice. To tie in, you do your rewoven fig. 8 through the all waist loops and the top of the original loop, which is below the waist loops. To belay, you clip your locker in the same way. I hope that made some sense. You can flame me if it doesn't... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 To tie a comfortable harness with fixed leg loops the way that Toast describes, it takes a heck of a lot more then 8 feet. We used to use 20' pieces of 1" tubular for this purpose many years ago and -- you know what? - the fancy harness I bought from a trendy Seattle climbing shop isn't any more comfortable or safer than the old-fashioned hand-tied rig. It just has a couple more features (the gear loops and a belay loop). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpinfox Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 I can use a 48" runner and pull a loop between the legs, and one around each side of my waist, then connect with a locker and it works for me. If you are much fatter then you'd need to use a longer piece of webbing. This is a great thing to know for emergency situations, but godDAMN is it painful to use. For guys. If you know what I mean. ...You know.... ...The nuts... ...Smashed.... ...Yup. ....Painful.... It also loads the locking biner along multiple axes which is probably not such a good thing, but if you are taking >6kN falls on that harness, you'll probably wish you were dead anyway. For extra fun, try it with one of those ultra-skinny mammut runners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 I can use a 48" runner and pull a loop between the legs, and one around each side of my waist, then connect with a locker and it works for me. If you are much fatter then you'd need to use a longer piece of webbing. This is a great thing to know for emergency situations, but godDAMN is it painful to use. For guys. If you know what I mean. ...You know.... ...The nuts... ...Smashed.... ...Yup. ....Painful.... It also loads the locking biner along multiple axes which is probably not such a good thing, but if you are taking >6kN falls on that harness, you'll probably wish you were dead anyway. For extra fun, try it with one of those ultra-skinny mammut runners. I hear you on the issue of not wanting to fall while wearing that thing Pax. I've mostly used it to belay friends on top-rope while they climb wearing my harness. To prevent the tri-directional carbiner loading, I usually pull one of the side loops throuhg the other loop, then through the crotch loop (or a similar thing), and clip straight into the one loop, which avoids this issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary_hehn Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 A simple overhand knot on a bite works fine for the leg loops. Leave about 3" of webbing between the two leg loops. One end extending from the leg loops should be about 10" long. The other end will be the rest of the 20 foot piece of 1" tubular webbing used for the harness. It's good if one can wrap around the waist three or four times. Tie the ends together with a water knot with plenty of spare ends. Keep periodically checking the water knot. I used this harness for years and never had one come undone, but the potential exists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary_hehn Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 I've also doubled a single runner for each leg and wrapped (ideally, 3 or 4 times) some 1" tubular webbing or the rope around my waist tied with a water knot or bowline respectively. I then attached each leg loop to the waist wrap with a carabiner. Probably wouldn't want to lead with this, but otherwise works in a pinch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinker Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 WWJD? Spend the damned $20 for a cheapie or borrow one so you've got some peace of mind. Risk Management! Heck, if I were in Seattle I'd lend you my spare XL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selkirk Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 If you use about 5 or 6 inches it does a little better job keeping it off the jimmies. But totally safe, and every tie in point is full strength Just like some of the fancy new harnesses! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary_hehn Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 Yes, actually 5 to 6 inches between the leg loops would probably be better. You need to try to get an idea of the fit as you are putting it together. Don't know if they're still available, but Misty Mountain Threadworks used to make a harness, "The Fudge Harness", that was perfect for these occasions. I could be fit to essentially anyone from a 40lb child to a 200+lb adult. It worked on the same concept except that it used wider webbing and incorporated metal sliders for adjusting the leg loops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maestro Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 To tie a comfortable harness with fixed leg loops the way that Toast describes, it takes a heck of a lot more then 8 feet. We used to use 20' pieces of 1" tubular for this purpose many years ago and -- you know what? - the fancy harness I bought from a trendy Seattle climbing shop isn't any more comfortable or safer than the old-fashioned hand-tied rig. It just has a couple more features (the gear loops and a belay loop). You are right: I stand majorly corrected. I was just guessing about the length and way under-guessed, even though this version doesn't have fixed (tied) leg loops. I dug out the old piece of webbing I used to use for that and it is closer to 20'. But I do think my harness is more comfortable and safer than that diaper sling was in the old days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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