glassgowkiss Posted June 15, 2005 Author Posted June 15, 2005 cairns, the is a lot of differeces between flash and os. you either know something about the route by watching or you know some betta or you climb veni vidi vici style. chalk is not really help, i mean how many times did you reach for a hold just to find out you are fucked and can't reverse a move. there is plenty sucker holds to support this point. and you can see the holds, but you still on harder routes have to figure out a sequence. it's also true on harder trad lines, where you have to really savy how you place gear. my point is that climbing is a after effect of colorado scene circle jerk and they will publish almost anythin sent to them without much thought or checking. that's why i stop my subscription many, many years ago. Quote
Cairns Posted June 15, 2005 Posted June 15, 2005 cairns, the is a lot of differeces between flash and os. you either know something about the route by watching or you know some betta or you climb veni vidi vici style. chalk is not really help, i mean how many times did you reach for a hold just to find out you are fucked and can't reverse a move. there is plenty sucker holds to support this point. and you can see the holds, but you still on harder routes have to figure out a sequence. it's also true on harder trad lines, where you have to really savy how you place gear. my point is that climbing is a after effect of colorado scene circle jerk and they will publish almost anythin sent to them without much thought or checking. that's why i stop my subscription many, many years ago. Â Thanks, Bob, I couldn't agree more. I just don't like the idea that catching a glimpse of someone on a route destroys the onsight. Â I have to stay on your good side. There is this really fun Polish woman I know. She's a married Catholic co-worker and I hold a position of trust as her Union Steward, but I figure a couple sentence of Polish will get me where I need to go. Â If you've done Genius Loci ALL OF IT then we can talk. Â Oh yeah, chalked holds can give something away but timing and just how to grasp or how to pull has to be rehearsed on the climbs you should be on: the ones you can't onsight or flash. As far as sequences, it's hard to put really good climbers on moves they haven't seen before, but even they have to dial in the fine-scale. Unless we are talking about 2-inch straight vertical cracks at Indian Creek. Beta is not a thing, it's only a word with shifting definition like red(vs pink)point. Quote
gosolo Posted June 18, 2005 Posted June 18, 2005 Is this kind of like who can piss the farthest? Or who is the best spraylord? Or maybe my dad can beat up your dad? Climbing is obviously only as stupid as the participants... Quote
Cairns Posted June 20, 2005 Posted June 20, 2005 Is this kind of like who can piss the farthest? Or who is the best spraylord? Or maybe my dad can beat up your dad? Climbing is obviously only as stupid as the participants... Â No, this is only about taking a position and defending it. Â However, a sense that something is missing may still be experienced by people with disadvantaged humor. Quote
Stefan Posted June 20, 2005 Posted June 20, 2005 Isn't getting knowledge where a route is--considered beta? What about the grade? If so, then the only person to onsight a route is the first person. Quote
Dru Posted June 20, 2005 Posted June 20, 2005 knowing where the route is is not beta. knowing the grade is not beta. knowing the first ascensionists' name is not beta. knowing the size of gear required is not beta. knowing whatever you can tell about looking at the climb from the ground is not beta. Â beta primarily but not exclusively consists of information gleaned from watching other climbers on the route, information given to one about the moves that make up the climb and so on. Â Â in short: knowing you need to take a #4 camalot is not beta. Â knowing WHERE you can place the #4 camalot from a secret no-hands-rest using a hidden hold, is beta Quote
archenemy Posted June 20, 2005 Posted June 20, 2005 Knowing what boulder to stand on and what direction the super-secret afternoon breeze blows in to get the farthest piss ever is totally beta. Quote
Cairns Posted June 21, 2005 Posted June 21, 2005 beta primarily but not exclusively consists of information gleaned from watching other climbers on the route, information given to one about the moves that make up the climb and so on. Â I notice you don't say whether beta has to be helpful. Maybe that's part of the reason people are missing the issue. The real question is how much help did you get? Not whether onsight or flash. Â Knowing the person who gives the beta is the most important beta of all. Â WARNING: BETA ALERT Â I was told that on the undercling of the 2nd (11c) pitch of Borderline to step down to a hold on the right. I wasn't paying attention when I was told that and when up there all I could remember was to look for something off to the right. I was trying to find the something when I noticed I could prop a knee in the undercling and get some rest. Â On Split Pillar Left Side I was told to take the initial finger-size crack straight on. Not unless you have bigger fingers. Layback works much better. Â Despite all this talk of beta I can't remember when it's ever really helped me. Usually any idea I develop about a route from reading or hearing about it does more harm than good. Â I never studied Alan Watts' notations, though. Â Dave Slinger of Devil's Lake kept a little black book on all the routes he'd done so when he did them again he could look up how. He was 65, then. Last I heard, some 10 years later, "He can probably still climb 5.10 but has trouble remembering his name." Â Gather ye rotpunkt beta while ye may. Quote
Dru Posted June 22, 2005 Posted June 22, 2005 I like to yell random beta simply to deprive others of the onsight "Put your left hand on the chalked hold!" Quote
Cairns Posted June 22, 2005 Posted June 22, 2005 I like to yell random beta simply to deprive others of the onsight "Put your left hand on the chalked hold!" Â The act of not climbing is also a climbing act? Quote
scheissami Posted July 10, 2005 Posted July 10, 2005 "Shut your fat ass! I can't buy a pack of smokes...." Â That movie absolutely rocks, Funny Man. Are there vigilante Saints of the climbing world who will knock off gimps like me for voicing their ignorant and debased opinions? Quote
Dechristo Posted July 12, 2005 Posted July 12, 2005 Are there vigilante Saints of the climbing world who will knock off gimps like me for voicing their ignorant and debased opinions? Â No, not for opinions... unless you are an EVILDOER! Â Do you place bolts on protectable lines? Do you spill beer? Do you begin TR's with "Press Release"? Â Watch yourself... Quote
scheissami Posted July 13, 2005 Posted July 13, 2005 Spill beer? I said debased, not sacrilegeous!! Quote
Dechristo Posted July 13, 2005 Posted July 13, 2005 Spill beer? I said debased, not sacrilegeous!! You can scream that distinction from your disemboweled guts. Quote
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