erik Posted October 22, 2002 Posted October 22, 2002 quote: Originally posted by pope: Frankie sez, "Without deviation from the norm, 'progress' is not possible." There's a lot of wisdom in that! so if one is a stout traditionalist.....and they were to follow frankie's excellent device....would that mean tolerance of bolts is a good thing??? or maybe actually, realizing that things will change and that all type of climbing are valid??? just a thought! Quote
Cpt.Caveman Posted October 22, 2002 Posted October 22, 2002 I only use pitons. Never bolts. I like to scar the rock up more It's a good way of creating finger locks too Quote
Greg_W Posted October 22, 2002 Posted October 22, 2002 I use nitro and make everything fourth class!! Quote
pope Posted October 23, 2002 Author Posted October 23, 2002 quote: Originally posted by erik: quote:Originally posted by pope: Frankie sez, "Without deviation from the norm, 'progress' is not possible." There's a lot of wisdom in that! so if one is a stout traditionalist.....and they were to follow frankie's excellent device....would that mean tolerance of bolts is a good thing??? or maybe actually, realizing that things will change and that all type of climbing are valid??? just a thought! Good question. I don't think Frankie is saying deviation is advisable; I think he's saying that it is necessary for progress. This is obviously true, since progress means positive change and no deviation means no change. Duh. But deviation isn't sufficient for progress. Progess means not just change. Progess is improvement. Is every change an improvement? In my opinion, the big changes in the standard practices of rock climbing are something other than improvements. They have transformed climbing in such a way that the old (and arguably noble) values have been forgotten (leave no trace; be bold or retreat, but never lower the mountain to your level; rely on yourself, not your 'quipment; etc.) These days, chasing bolts IS the norm. Long live the Deviants! Quote
iain Posted October 23, 2002 Posted October 23, 2002 quote: Originally posted by pope: These days, chasing bolts IS the norm. Long live the Deviants! Judging by BD, Patagonia, etc. marketing juggarnaut I'd say trad is as hip as can be these days. Quote
pope Posted October 23, 2002 Author Posted October 23, 2002 quote: Originally posted by iain: quote:Originally posted by pope: These days, chasing bolts IS the norm. Long live the Deviants! Judging by BD, Patagonia, etc. marketing juggarnaut I'd say trad is as hip as can be these days. OK! I knew we'd be back in style! Now, if long hair and free lovin' would just come back. Quote
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