4 more years of...

[selkirk]

The christians i've known who were persecuted, weren't the ones who were humbly practicing their faith, and going about their own lives. They're the ones who are trying to convert everyone, or the ones that came across so holier than thow it was disturbing, the ones who were throwing their religion in everyones face when it should be a personal thing, to me this smacks of pride, and arrogance (can someone say 7 deadly sins?). This coming from a catholic, so don't pull out the atheist bit.

[glacier]

...the same-old same-old.

 

From a column written a few days before the election.

 

"There is no uncertainty about the outcome of this presidential election in terms of certain characteristics of the man we elect and the political environment in which he must lead for the next four years. We're electing, no matter how long it takes for our votes to be counted or litigated, a millionaire, educated at Yale and a member of Skull and Bones. Our president will be dealing with a Congress more accustomed to satisfying the demands of special interest groups and corporate America than the wishes and needs of middle-class constituents..."

 

Full text

 

In short - the president and vice president and all 535 members of Congress are not representative of the population as a whole, nor do they have our best interests at heart.

 

Best of luck.

[scott_harpell]

I will tell you that I think the killing of a child is murder and therefore against the laws of this country. I don't understand why people don't think this is murder; the killing of another human being.

How many innocent children has our government killed in Iraq? Isn't that murder??? Where are this countries morals then?

 

mur·der P Pronunciation Key (mûrdr)

n.

The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.

[cj001f]

Well in the United States, I went to school in the Everett School System. Then they went completely left and baisically called me an idiot for believing in God. I was glad my family moved back and forth from Europe to save me from having to go through that all at once.

 

Your religion got a warmer reception in Europe?

[scott_harpell]

I will tell you that I think the killing of a child is murder and therefore against the laws of this country. I don't understand why people don't think this is murder; the killing of another human being.

BECAUSE IT'S NOT YET A HUMAN BEING! INCAPABLE OF LIVING BY ITSELF!

 

I asked you before to define the beginning of life - you haven't. Until you define that your another right wing wackjob (the counterpoint to a leftwing loon) Acting on your "feelings" and "beliefs" the same touchy feely crap that the Republicans loved to slam democrats over.

 

If a baby is delivered and unable to live without a incubator or respirator may we kill it then as well?

[Jim]

The 10 commandments are tthe basis of our legal system. It only makes sense that a historical document like that be there.

 

What is this supposed to mean? Our legal system is a legal system based on individual freedoms of speech, religion, etc. Our legal system makes no reference of the ten commandments. Is adultery outlawed? Are all people required to "keep holy the Lord's day"? Swearing? Give me a break. This is another Christian wing-nut idea.

 

Jim Jim Jim. It is based in truth. The Judeo principles founded our belief systems. Lockean ethics etc. Social contract was written about in the Bible.

 

Show me. Don't just spout off the party line. And answer my questions.

[scott_harpell]

Well in the United States, I went to school in the Everett School System. Then they went completely left and baisically called me an idiot for believing in God. I was glad my family moved back and forth from Europe to save me from having to go through that all at once.

 

Your religion got a warmer reception in Europe?

 

I did actually. You see, I find that they are much more willing to discuss the issues rather than blather on about how much of a brown shirt nazi i am and how stupid i am. We can disagree but that does not mean that we can't be civil.

[selkirk]

I will tell you that I think the killing of a child is murder and therefore against the laws of this country. I don't understand why people don't think this is murder; the killing of another human being.

BECAUSE IT'S NOT YET A HUMAN BEING! INCAPABLE OF LIVING BY ITSELF!

 

I asked you before to define the beginning of life - you haven't. Until you define that your another right wing wackjob (the counterpoint to a leftwing loon) Acting on your "feelings" and "beliefs" the same touchy feely crap that the Republicans loved to slam democrats over.

 

If a baby is delivered and unable to live without a incubator or respirator may we kill it then as well?

 

That's not a decision anyone should be making for the family. I wouldn't want the government deciding whether or not I should be pulled off a respirator for that matter, that decision belongs to the people who care about me most. Not the rest of you wankers

 

So the lefty's were being to militant. It shouldn't be their place to pass judgement on any religion. That doesn't mean there should be prayer in school though, just that there shouldn't be militant atheism there either (as much of a religion as any other in my opinion). It's not the place of public school teachers to be discussing God, either for or agains, unless they're going to go about it from every angle.

Edited November 4, 2004 by selkirk

[scott_harpell]

I will tell you that I think the killing of a child is murder and therefore against the laws of this country. I don't understand why people don't think this is murder; the killing of another human being.

BECAUSE IT'S NOT YET A HUMAN BEING! INCAPABLE OF LIVING BY ITSELF!

 

I asked you before to define the beginning of life - you haven't. Until you define that your another right wing wackjob (the counterpoint to a leftwing loon) Acting on your "feelings" and "beliefs" the same touchy feely crap that the Republicans loved to slam democrats over.

 

If a baby is delivered and unable to live without a incubator or respirator may we kill it then as well?

 

That's not a decision anyone should be making for the family. I wouldn't want the government deciding whether or not I should be pulled off a respirator for that matter, that decision belongs to the people who care about me most. Not the rest of you wankers

 

Well what if you have 99% chance of survival and your mother says "you know, I really don't think that I can handle this kid." and kills you. You can't survive without assistance, but you will live regardless. Why is this any different given your logic?

[jjd]

Jim Jim Jim. It is based in truth. The Judeo principles founded our belief systems. Lockean ethics etc. Social contract was written about in the Bible.

 

Actually, our legal system is based upon the early laws of Mesopotamia (Hammurabi's Code), and the English common law. Many of these ideas pre-date the "Ten Commandments" by thousands of years.

[Mal_Con]

The 10 comandments are principly religeous laws about how to worship God and not laws for governing society.

[Jim]

Jim Jim Jim. It is based in truth. The Judeo principles founded our belief systems. Lockean ethics etc. Social contract was written about in the Bible.

 

Actually, our legal system is based upon the early laws of Mesopotamia (Hammurabi's Code), and the English common law. Many of these ideas pre-date the "Ten Commandments" by thousands of years.

 

And our laws were written with the concept of the seperation of church and state by folks who started the country because they were tired of being under the thumb of a religious state. We can relate.

[scott_harpell]

you might want to check that Hammurabi was 1700BC. The years attributed to the 10 commandments is soemthing like 1300B.C.True Hammurabi was first but it is clear that the 10 commandments picked up from Hammurabi. I see the 10 commandments are a refinement of the Hammurabi code and actually is fairly close to the baisic tenants of law that we have here. That is why I tend to believe that it had a great influence on our laws and society. Would I have a problem placing Hammurabi in the court room? Nope.

[scott_harpell]

The 10 comandments are principly religeous laws about how to worship God and not laws for governing society.

Have you read them?

[selkirk]

I will tell you that I think the killing of a child is murder and therefore against the laws of this country. I don't understand why people don't think this is murder; the killing of another human being.

BECAUSE IT'S NOT YET A HUMAN BEING! INCAPABLE OF LIVING BY ITSELF!

 

I asked you before to define the beginning of life - you haven't. Until you define that your another right wing wackjob (the counterpoint to a leftwing loon) Acting on your "feelings" and "beliefs" the same touchy feely crap that the Republicans loved to slam democrats over.

 

If a baby is delivered and unable to live without a incubator or respirator may we kill it then as well?

 

That's not a decision anyone should be making for the family. I wouldn't want the government deciding whether or not I should be pulled off a respirator for that matter, that decision belongs to the people who care about me most. Not the rest of you wankers

 

Well what if you have 99% chance of survival and your mother says "you know, I really don't think that I can handle this kid." and kills you. You can't survive without assistance, but you will live regardless. Why is this any different given your logic?

 

That's the nice thing about having my "mother" or actually it would be my wife make the decision..... they wouldn't decide to pull the plug.

 

If at birth my mother was screwed up enough to want me that little or to care that little. Under those circumstances I would probably already be crack baby or have fetal alcohol syndrom, and to be that non-chalant about it, I can pretty much guarantee I would have grown up messed up, and miserable, or dying shortly there after from neglect anyway. I still stand by it, "heroic measures" whether they are for a baby, or an adult, are the domain of the family and the loved ones, with advice from the Dr's. Not the state. Otherwise were going to have to take all medical decisions away from the family, and that's a scary proposition.

[scott_harpell]

So you would support "post-natal" abortions?

[selkirk]

you might want to check that Hammurabi was 1700BC. The years attributed to the 10 commandments is soemthing like 1300B.C.True Hammurabi was first but it is clear that the 10 commandments picked up from Hammurabi. I see the 10 commandments are a refinement of the Hammurabi code and actually is fairly close to the baisic tenants of law that we have here. That is why I tend to believe that it had a great influence on our laws and society. Would I have a problem placing Hammurabi in the court room? Nope.

 

If your going to avoid the religous conotations then you had better put them all up, from Hamurabi's code through English common law, then it's history and not religion. But that's not why the people who feel like they need the ten commandments in the courtroom or courthouse want them there and you know. Most could give a shit less about history.....

[scott_harpell]

but I think the reason that most Christians want them to stay is that they feel attacked. They are not willing to concede anything as they see their views as being attacked and marginalized; especially in the pacific northwest.

[jjd]

Which of the commandments refer to free speech, freedom of assembly, and freedom of religion?

 

Which ones refer to unlawful seizure of property or states' rights?

 

Which amendment to the constitution bans working on Sundays or adultery?

[scott_harpell]

I have already told you that I don't care if they stay or not. I am just providing you with insight on what others may think. I know you may like it in here where you don't have to do that but perhaps some of your actions are the reasons that Christians are fighting so hard for this stupid stuff. Can you get that through your heads? Are you listening? Or is you Jesus-Freak sensor going off so you are turned onto kill mode.

[selkirk]

So you would support "post-natal" abortions?

 

you must be joking? A baby that is in danger of dying out of neglect, or malice, should be taken from the parents post haste.

 

However that still doesn't mean that the state gets to make decisions on the life or death of a family member, or child when the parents and family are mentally fit and caring. (i.e. JW, or Christian Scientist).

[scott_harpell]

I just prefer adoption to just killing the baby. There are way more than enough parents to go around that are waiting for a child while people are killing millions each year. It doesn't make sense to me.

[selkirk]

I agree, it's a much better option. But at the same time I don't think my moral compass is sufficienty superior to Jehovah's Witness to enforce it on them. I think that feeling sufficienty superior and self righteous to enforce your beliefs on someone else is pride, which isn't a very good christian value either

[cj001f]

If a baby is delivered and unable to live without a incubator or respirator may we kill it then as well?

Is every sperm sacred? At what point does it become life? This is to me the fundamental question in the abortion debate - at what point does the state takeover governance of reproduction. You've not answered that question - you go back to spewing the "abortion is wrong" diatribe.

[scott_harpell]

Well I honestly equate it with murder. If i were to let go of my impositions on people who get abortions I would have to get rid of those pertaining to murderers. I just think there is a better way to handle it and it disgusts me that while people are trying to conceive and all they want is a child to love others are throwing their carcasses in the garbage. It sounds gross but it is the truth.