Interesting thread for you parents out there...

[RuMR]

Its definitely affected me....

[minx]

i've said it before

 

i quit climbing for many years because of my son. it was a mistake. h/e, having a child has ruined me as a climber. i am much more cautious in my selection of situations. i don't push my limits as hard nor do go for the high risk/high reward situations anymore. i might be the most horrible mother out there (fairly good chance of it really) but it would matter to somebody if i died.

 

let me add the following: having a child has given me perspective which is good. i am also probably likely to live longer because of it. perhaps i am too cautious now but i am more careful about all aspects of my climbing. i've probably reduced my risk of being the reason for a rescue outing. i'm reasonably convinced that karmically i of all people ended up a parent for my own good as much as anything. despite the fact that my climbing is much less "exciting" than it used to be i enjoy it just as much if not more. again, it's that perspective thing.

Edited August 30, 2004 by minx

[telemarker]

Minx,

 

My wife and I are expecting our first child, and I find your post very much of interest to me. Were/are you mostly a trad climber or sport? And how did it "ruin" you as a climber? It sounds like you were more ambitious pre-parenthood. Did this mean you did a bit more adventure climbing on looser,dirtier rock, and now you're "reduced" to cragging more?

 

Myself, I'm finding that I'm taking a bit more time and being more mindful of small things, like tying my figger 8's, readying my raps, and running it out on an alpine climb. Not that I wasn't taking notice of the small things before our pregnancy, but now I REALLY pay attention, instead of joking and talking while I'm tying in, for example.

 

Just thought I'd add my two bits....

[minx]

telemarker,

 

that's right along the lines of what i meant. i used to be pretty carefree about what we climbed. mostly alpine and trad stuff. pretty much if i even thought the proposed route was in the realm of possibility for my abilities, i'd go.

 

shortly after my son was born, i made myself a single parent. at that time i neither had the time or inclination to climb. it felt to risky. it's bad enough to leave your child with one parent but what if you left him with none???

 

now i don't worry quite as much. if kill myself climbing he's got someone else to count on. that said, i am more cautious about the little things, tying into anchors, tying into the rope, setting up rappells etc.

 

it's ruined me in the sense that i don't push myself very often. i seldom try a lead that is pushing my abilities, i'm more mindful of bad weather, etc. i'm more apt to bail off something if i get into trouble than push through it. that sort of thing.

 

the thing that i do want to point out though, as i've let go of the frustration of not being able to push my physical limits anymore, i enjoy climbing more. pretty much anytime i get out and get a few pitches in, i consider it a successful day. if i didn't achieve whatever goal i had for the day...eh, so what? my perspective is definitely different.

[RuMR]

I spent the early summer struggling with a horrible nightmare involving climbing...it definitely affects me...

[SnowByrd]

I find this post interesting as well. I'm 27 and a single mom of 2 boys, 10 and 2. I started climbing 10 years ago, right before I became pregnant with my first...I was 16 at the time and just starting college....I was also wreckless. My first climb I was leading trad on a 5.something or other (Joshua Tree) and on the third pitch, took a 30 foot whipper. I didn't deck, but I broke my ankle and hung upside down for a while while my incompteant partners tried to figure out how to get me down. In the end, I got a nice helicopter ride to the nearest hospital. I was dehydrated, in shock, and hysterical. It took me months to get past that. I didn't climb again, other than going bouldering. While I had that cast on my foot, I got pregnant. I had the baby, anc continued on to finish school, learn to surf, mountain bike, drive a car, etc. All of those things are dangerous. Previous to conceiving my second child, I found out I had cancer. Now, THIS is a life threatening situation usually....it was found at stage 2a and it was an agressive form of Ovarian cancer. My particular strain, goes inward and affects the uterus and phalopian tubes, cervix, etc, instead of flaking off like the usual Ovarian cancer. It was easy to find, and pretty easy to cure. I lost one ovary and phalopian tube out of the whole thing. I went on to have another baby and had a reoccurance of it last year. I've been healthy for 16 months now.

 

I'm a true newbie to climbing in every sense of the word. I did my first multipitch - trad climb on Saturday. Did I think about my children? Yes, I certainly did. This is the first time in 10 years that I was truly 'exposed' again....and I was on top rope! Sitting on a rock bench while tied in just before starting the first real pitch of Givler's, I had an episode of near hysteria. I do not know where it came from. I cried because I was so frustrated by my near immobilizing fear for my life....I mean, i had to step out on a ledge, tied in and totally safe, and climb! It didn't occur to me that I was attached to a rope...all I could think of was that first climb. Thinking about my children gave me courage...my 10 year old is an aspiring climber. I had to DO it because 1) there was another rope team behind me waiting for to get my ass in gear, and 2) I WILL NOT give up. If I had rapped down, I would have been letting myself, my son, and my climbing partners down. We would have been there all evening and the next day while I attempted it again.

 

That trip caused me to do alot of thinking. I take in and process everything anyone who is more experienced than me, says to me. I will be the true safety nazi. I want climbing to be a safe, challenging, and most of all FUN experience that my son and I can enjoy together. Someday, I'll be leading him on this climb. That is at LEAST a couple of years down the road....because I want to learn all there is to learn before I risk my life. It doesn't mean that I won't take risks....we do that every day, just getting out of bed. I will challenge myself to do harder climbs, and learn to lead. I will also learn every safety technique there is to learn and back those up with even more safety techniques.

 

My kids are well taken care of if I die...they'll not want for anything most of their lives, other than a mother. If I become permanently disabled, I am guaranteed my current salary for the rest of my life. I have insurance out the yin yang.

 

But none of this causes me to pause when it comes to safety. Perhaps I am entering the climbing world from a different doorway than most people. I consider myself lucky. I learned the hard way. I will take risks because that is part of the fun of climbing...but I won't be stupid about it. I will listen to what others tell me and also be critical and think for myself.

 

In my mind, even though I am not religious, everything happens for a reason and you can learn something and find something positive in every situation, no matter how bad it is.

 

I would never ever judge someone else for taking the risks they take or call them stupid or selfish. People do things for their own reasons and we. as the onlookers, have no right to judge others because we aren't wearing their shoes.

 

Moral of the story: Everything in moderation....and do no harm. Just be as safe as you can, for yourself or for those that love you. Every action is played forward in one way or another.

 

Karma, baby!

[billcoe]

Wow.....Snowbyrd: that was an amazing post/story.

 

I'd tie in any day of the week with ya, sounds like you really have your stuff together now. Like you, many "old timers" have stories remarkably similar to yours (without the cancer thing of course). Knowledge often follows stupidity in trad climbing - at least it did for me and many of my early climbing friends anyway, or perhaps its just getting older and wiser, who can really say?

 

Anyway, thank you for sharing that.

 

BTW, if you haven't checked it out, Eric Horsts "Flash Training" has a great little section on mental prep: you might check it out. I stumbled over a copy for a buck at a used bookstore and thought it was the best buck I've ever spent, easilly worth the full (and origonal) purchase price IMO if you can't find a used copy. Getting more time on the rock helps the mind as well (you might have to wait for your kids to grow some to get more free time for that one).

 

Enjoy:

 

Regards - Bill

[telemarker]

Yeah, that's quite a story Snowbyrd. You're definitely coming from a different perspective. My BIGGEST fear is getting killed climbing either before the child is born or within the first 4 to 5 years, when critical bonding occurs between parent and child. It would be incredibly selfish of me should my son/daughter have to get to know dad by looking at his pictures. And they would probably really resent climbing as an endeavor. If that fear has gravitated from the back of my mind to my present consciousness on lead, for example (when it usually happens lately)then I find my movements become more tentative and stiff. It sucks, but there must be some sort of uncontrollable instinct telling me to be more cautious. But I've been of the opinion that being more cautious can cause accidents just as much as hubris. But now it's ridiculous. I had to use my knee in an very ungraceful porpoise-like move the other day just to get onto Saber ledge on Castle Rock when leading the 1st pitch of Canary. I haven't done that since the first time I lead it three years ago. Little mind games like that are cropping up on my leads, and it's a bit annoying, but I understand what's happening.

[SnowByrd]

It sounds like you are having pre-parenting jitters! Take a deep breath, calm down, and stop worrying about things that are out of your control and pay close attention to those that are! If you're that afraid, give it up! Once you give it up, you'll find out that you didn't need ot give it up, and have a different perception. Fear is natural....I climbed part of the first route of Givlers with my knee stuck in the crack! Now, I understand WHY you don't stick your knee in the crack! Don't solo...don't do anything thats too dangerous. C'mon Telemarker....you're a smart guy....just use common sense! Join a parenting group....talk to friends who have kids....I'll bet this is not so much about the climbing but more about becoming a parent for the first time. Fear of the unknown is silly because its out of your control. Live each day to its fullest and your child will thank you for it because you will instill that in him as well. Just be safe.

[Billygoat]

I feel like Minx on this one: I am cautious and actually seem to enjoy myself more no matter what the outcome.

 

Snowbyrd: I'm psyched to hook up your ten y/o with my eight y/o and do some climbing with you at Kid's Rope-Up

 

Telemarker: Please describe a more stylish way to gain the ledge off the first pitch of Canary. I cannot picture it Weren't we supposed to go skiing at one point a few years ago? Still interested?!

 

Rudy: I'll bite. Tell us about the Dream.

[MisterMo]

There's a great little Tom Patey snippet about climbers-become-parents who slack on serious climbing because "it wouldn't be fair to the children...etc.,etc", & then hop in their fast cars & drive as though immortal.

He put it much better than I can; it's in an old Mountain and probably in his anthology.

[Billygoat]

True True

 

I definately feel safer climbing than driving in the city. And I have a full size truck!

[RuMR]

I feel like Minx on this one: I am cautious and actually seem to enjoy myself more no matter what the outcome.

 

Snowbyrd: I'm psyched to hook up your ten y/o with my eight y/o and do some climbing with you at Kid's Rope-Up

 

Telemarker: Please describe a more stylish way to gain the ledge off the first pitch of Canary. I cannot picture it Weren't we supposed to go skiing at one point a few years ago? Still interested?!

 

Rudy: I'll bite. Tell us about the Dream.

 

not biting...too screwed up...probably should quit climbing altogether...but its faded as the summer ends so i'll be ok...

[Bug]

I all but quit climbing when my first was born. I didn't really want to but it freaked my wife out totally. Then I figured out that she was freaked out anyway so I started climbing again. The girls are often on my mind as I climb. It has gotten easier now that they are 6 & 8 and past that magical 5 the doc's talk about. They are obviously part of my legacy now -poor things. But it is not really the kids who changed me. It was when Alex Lowe died and left his three kids behind. I remember when Alex decided to focus his life on climbing. I remember when our friend Marvin died on the Grand. There were a lot of discussions with close friends at those times and we all had to agree that if you are climbing with good equipment and using your well developed skills as best you can, you are more likely to die in a car wreck. Alex did die in the mountains but it was in a freakish sized avalanche. It was like getting taken out in your bed by a drunk driver who didn't see your house. Marvin on the other hand, died on the north face of the Grand rapping off in a storm. He always wore a helmet but didn't that day. He always tied knots in the end of his ropes but didn't that day. He got beaned by a rock, slid off the end of his ropes and bounced a thousand feet.

Cover the basics-always. Develop a discerning eye and keep track of when you were wrong and when you were right and why. Never let your guard down. Do that and enjoy the sport and you will probably die on I-5. Unless you wear a seat belt and drive defensively. Then you will probably die of heart failure. Unless you keep in good shape, eat right and control your colesterol. Then you will probably die of ...........