Try to follow me here....

[larrythellama]

So I just read this idea that Christianity is what has pretty much ruined the 3rd world, I will use Africa as an example. not to mention the anglo-christian greed for mineral/material wealth. There is always the classic 3 g's: gold, glory & god!

 

So in Africa families have been having 5-10-15 kids in an effort to atleast have a few survive the natural cycle of life that occurs on the Dark contienent. Disese, drought, famine, death by wildlife, etc...have always been a natural happening there. So the idea of many children seemed to work if say 20% survived to become adults(15 years of age was pretty much conisered an adult). It is a natural balance.

 

So in waltz the christain cultrue with the belief that all life is sacred and the idea of children dying just made the whites ill. So they bring in their modern medicines and ways of life to curb this sad happening. Now the death rate is lowered and yet the idea of create as many children has not been curbed, so population growth rates increase as the mortality rates decrease.

 

The land there is not the same as where the christains come from and cannot sustain as many people. The cultural idea of only owning what you need and to share the rest. The ideas of agribusiness where one place grows all the food and ships it abroad has never been the custom in Africa. The christains attempt to force these ideals of gluttony and material wealth unto the people who reject it, so the christains use force and do exactly what they came do irradicate death.

 

So now we have Africa using christain medicines to decrease a natural balance in the culures and thus taxing the way of life in Africa beyond its worth. Trees are cut down in alarming rates in attempt to harness christain agricultural ways, which the land rejects by means of drought, floods and what not again, this time besides killing off the pepole in the natural balance now the land is dying too.

 

Christains said that they came to help the heathens see the glory of god, yet the christains refused to see the glory of the Africans gods. The believed the Africians worshipped false idols and thus god killed the children with his tools of mercery(drought, disease, famine, etc..) Yet the Africans see the christains being the one tainting the pool of their existanct and rise up against it. The christains see this as a threat to their attempts to rape Africa's riches and slaughter the Africans with technology, ie: firearms.

 

So tell me where are the christains doing good?

[Szyjakowski]

christians do good at church functions.

[Dru]

Free picnics.

[gotterdamerung]

What a loser. Move to Saudi Arabia if you're so bummed out on living in a Christian nation.

[Dru]

abrahamic religions share the same faults... switching christ for allah would be like switching Bud for Coors

[Szyjakowski]

Right they all suck. try nirvana living and drink more redwine.

[Fairweather]

Substitute Christianity with [/i]western liberalism[/i]. Does the outcome of your equation change? By your twisted logic we should abolish all social programs and medical assistance in Africa and right here in our own country...after all, those people we are helping might just be encouraged to reproduce at a higher rate! Better to let the present generation die off than propagate the suffering of future generations?? WTF are you saying?

 

Blame the Christians! Blame the Jews! It is a common theme among modern liberals and communists, and your prose sounds alarmingly familiar.

[Szyjakowski]

Blame religious cults and organizations.

[ashw_justin]

Agreed. Christianity is not the root of the Evil West it is only a symptom...

 

Besides I doubt that 18th and 19th century plunderers could reasonably call themselves Christians, nor did they give a shit who was dying as long as it wasn't themselves or their fortunes...

[Fairweather]

Just a thought:

 

If a race of technologically superior, space-faring aliens arrived here on earth would they have a right to trade with us their technical know-how for, say....certain mining rights? Would their missionaries be right to set up churches and preach their (what would seem) obviously superior beliefs ? Would our citizens be free to worship therein? Would certain elements of the human race be justified in their efforts toward armed resistance? Would our way of life change forever?

 

The answer to all these questions is yes.

[Szyjakowski]

The last question is no unless you are blind sheep.

[MervGriffin]

Take your Christian-bashing elsewhere. If you substituted the word "Jew" for "Christian" in your diatribes, you'd be called anti-Semitic and run out of town. Where are the moderators?

And by the way, the original post on this topic was both exceedingly simplistic and naive.

 

[Ratboy]

When the Christians leave me alone, I'll leave them alone. Until then, fair game like anyone else that tries to tell me how I should live my life.

[Billygoat]

All religions are the same. People get into trouble when the community/social aspect is discarded and they begin to take themselves too seriously.

 

Ultimately, religion is highly personal. If I need to talk with God, I call him on the batphone....

[whirlwind]

Substitute Christianity with [/i]western liberalism[/i]. Does the outcome of your equation change? By your twisted logic we should abolish all social programs and medical assistance in Africa and right here in our own country...after all, those people we are helping might just be encouraged to reproduce at a higher rate! Better to let the present generation die off than propagate the suffering of future generations?? WTF are you saying?

 

Blame the Christians! Blame the Jews! It is a common theme among modern liberals and communists, and your prose sounds alarmingly familiar.

 

actually the out come would probly change dramatically.

seeing as how most true liberals are enviomentaly freindly and don't try to change peoples cultures but rather exept them for who they are and educate them, which would be more of an evolution from their current situation rather than a inportation of a new way of life

[MervGriffin]

When the Christians leave me alone, I'll leave them alone. Until then, fair game like anyone else that tries to tell me how I should live my life.

 

And which Christians are those, Ratboy? Millions upon millions of Christians leave you alone. You and lots of others seem to think that the more vocal, activist and extreme elements represent the whole. Kind of like saying all Muslims are terrorists. And if those more active Christian-types got an idea to share that you don't care for, you can discuss why what you have to offer is better, or you can close the door when they show up, walk-away, change the channel, or vote for someone else. Look in the phone book under churches. You'll find a hundred selections in any big city and most aren't coming after you.

 

And Billygoat say:

 

All religions are the same.

 

Really? Is that why there are numerous definitions for the very term "religion"? They might be the same in certain key areas: living believers tend to breathe air and are members of the human species, otherwise, you got, for example, some folks who worship tree bark, or perhaps animal-headed gods, or make human sacrifices or live by themselves in caves where they meditate, etc. The diversity is amazing. By some definitions, science, which requires no God, would meet the requirements of a religion. Broad statements like yours rarely hold water.

[larrythellama]

dear ,

 

i can hold whatever opinions i want to. i do not hate people only the way the guise their actions by using god. life in africa is different then life in christain europe and therefore approached differently. i just find it so laughable that people so much stock in fairy tails and then expect everyone to buy into those same stories.

 

keep on truckin ole boy!

 

[whirlwind]

all religions are the same; all religous people belive in somthing, and or practice something in which they are so intertwined with they are ussally willing to die for rather than change these belifs or practices

[Billygoat]

Actually Merv, science used to be considered Natural Philosophy. Science is a religion too. There just seems to be more tangible results for those worshipping in that church...

[Bug]

My theorey is that literacy has led to a different cognization of the world around us. Pre-literate peoples tended to have mythologies that emphasized cyclical patterns. Literate peoples tend to think in terms of linear equations and absolute truths. I believe that it is the concept of 'secularism' that makes the difference. 'Secular' is an abstract term that would have no bearing on a people who related to the world through personal interaction for every morsel of food and and calorie of warmth. The wisdom for sustaining these hard ways of life was stored in the 'mythology' of the society. In a pre-literate (badly used, ethnocentric term) society, a mythology was 'fluid' so that new perspectives could be introduced without destroying the basis for life/survival-wisdom. With the invention of literacy (Biblical Hebrew- Torah, Ancient Greek-New Testament, Arabic-Quran) the concept of fluidity was lost and people started following the concepts in the book because "It was written". As the mythologies that were recorded in the books became outmoded, their concepts became abstract- that is, not based in everyday life. Jack Goody referred to this as the "concretedness of experience". This loss of fluidity was addressed in Christianity in the Ecumenical councils, the splits into Eastern Orthodoxy, Greek Orthodoxy, Protestantism and so on. In each split there was the conservative party holding on to abstract principles and the radical party attempting to bring real life experiences into the relationship with God as they perceived Him. As science expanded , primarily through religious endevors at first, the rate of change became too great for the elders of the churches to keep up with. Eventually, we ended up with a separation of church from science which is too bad because religion started out as an empiraclly based body of wisdom- not just knowledge. As a society, we are teenagers. We have a great deal of knowledge but no body of wisdom to tell us how to use it justly, or efficiently or however you wish to look at it. With the coming of the computer age, we will see a similar change in the mode of cognizance and will see another revolution in social structures.

You may now call me Bug-Babba. I will be your guide through the coming millennia. I will lead you out of the dark places where your soul has languished and bring a new light to the races of the world!. Foooollllloooooow. Follow me now.............

[Dru]

 

vs.

 

[Bug]

Bring me all your little white cars. Place them at my feet. Leave the keys. Give the silly hats to poor people.

[catbirdseat]

My theorey is that literacy has led to a different cognization of the world around

Hey man that is pretty deep thinking. I enjoyed reading it.

[Fairweather]

all religions are the same; all religous people belive in somthing, and or practice something in which they are so intertwined with they are ussally willing to die for rather than change these belifs or practices

 

Some forms of environmentalism have left the realm of science and are now religion. What's your religion, Whirl?

Edited August 23, 2004 by Fairweather

[Fairweather]

My theorey is that literacy has led to a different cognization.....

 

That's a classic, man!