Axe Length

[K_Y_L_E]

>>>>>"As far as making an anchor... You can build a snow anchor out of anything, ski poles included. The most important aspect of an anchor is to back it up with other items. "<<<<<<<

 

 

Yeah..... I don't know if I would trust a ski pole anchor. Exactly how would you do that if you were holding the weight of your partner? If you can't place the ski pole how can you place back-up anchors? Sorry, I am going to have to call "Shananigans" on you. I think that I will use the axe, and only the axe while on a rope.

[marylou]

Tits are really not all that inconvenient. Actually, I can see no downside to having a set of them.

 

Nether are Raven Pros, in the length of 65 CM, for a woman of the 5'9" height. I have one Raven Pro, and it's a good piece of gear.

[Jason_Martin]

Yeah..... I don't know if I would trust a ski pole anchor. Exactly how would you do that if you were holding the weight of your partner? If you can't place the ski pole how can you place back-up anchors? Sorry, I am going to have to call "Shananigans" on you. I think that I will use the axe, and only the axe while on a rope.

 

Okay, we're getting from Axe Length into another issue entirely. The question about building an anchor is the same issue that you have with an axe in your hand.

 

When a person falls into a crevasse in a "normal" circumstance this is the order of events:

 

1) Arrest the fallen climber -- I'm not arguing that it is better not to have an axe, just that in some conditions it's not as important as in others. The arrest may happen because the rope cuts into the lip and a knot gets jammed or it may happen because you arrest with the axe.

 

The reality of an axe arrest of a crevasse fall is that a great deal of the arrest takes place with one's feet, not with the axe.

 

2) Once the person is arrested, the next thing is to build an anchor. On a three person team this is simple. One person holds the weight while the other person on the surface builds the anchor. With a two person team it's a little more complex.

 

The person on the surface will be holding the weight primarily with his or her feet. At which point, the axe may be laid down. An anchor with a fluke, a picket, an ice axe or a water bottle or whatever can be built at this point while the climber is holding the weight with his legs.

 

After the first anchor is built, one can clip the foot prusiks into the anchor, allowing the inital weight to be loaded onto the single piece anchor. After this the climber is free to move around.

 

Once the fallen climber's weight is on the first anchor, the climber on the surface can easily build a backup anchor, clipping it to the initial anchor.

 

 

Okay, that said... I usually use the axe, but seldom in the anchor. All I'm trying to point out is that a super long axe is overkill sometimes and that in low angle glaciers ski poles might be more acceptable.

 

Those who ski mountaineer often climb glaciers with ski poles in hand. Were there an accident, ski poles, skis whatever would be used as the anchor.

 

I hate throwing my creditials out on the web on this site, but I have seen these different techniques practiced literally hundreds and hundreds of times. And believe me, they work...

 

Jason

[Braumeister]

I'm 6'1" with long monkey arms/legs and my 75 cm Grivel is about right.

 

One thing nobody mentioned regarding the length vs. walking stick issue is that since you use your axe (hopefully) on the uphill side of a slope, you don't want to have one that is too long or you'll be using it in an uncomfortable position (i.e., shoulder high). IMHO, a short axe would be even worse.

 

Obviously, the varying angle of a given slope will change, but it's something to consider when evaluating a purchase in a store with a level floor...

 

Except for the unusually tall freaks of nature, I would guess there's a reason that most ice axes are built in the ~70 cm length.

[murraysovereign]

For general purpose axes, the way we size them in the shop is as follows:

 

Stand holding the axe in the "normal" position - ie with head of axe in palm of hand, fingers wrapped under adze, and axe hanging down beside your leg. The rule of thumb is that the spike of the axe should be about even with your lateral maleolus (that pointy bit of bone on the outside of you ankle). That gets you into the ballpark for general purpose axe length. From there you can go a bit longer or shorter depending on personal preference - longer for glacier slogs, shorter for steep stuff.

[IceIceBaby]

longer for glacier slogs, shorter for steep stuff.

 

you only need an axe for the steep stuff for a slog a pole will be ALLOT better I climb with both an axe and a pole I find it to be the best combo

[Dru]

when you have to cut down a 2000 year old Old Growth Cedar with your alpenstock to cross a raging river, Munday style, you will be glad you went with the extra 25cm of shaft length. its the difference between a hatchet and an axe.

[K_Y_L_E]

when you have to cut down a 2000 year old Old Growth Cedar with your alpenstock to cross a raging river, Munday style, you will be glad you went with the extra 25cm of shaft length. its the difference between a hatchet and an axe.

 

No, it is a difference of opinion. I like my ice axe, you like your ice hatchet. My grandfather was a carpenter and he always told me to use the right tool for the job. Same applies here. Don't use a screwdriver to pull nails, don't use a 80cm axe to climb steeps. I am just choosing the tool that best suits my "job". You do the same and together we will cure cancer, end world hunger and make the Balkans a better place to vacation. God bless Texas!!! (and your axe)

[Dru]

the longer the shaft the more useful your axe will be for playing some wicked air guitar solos in camp too

 

or for using as a balancing bar while shitting in a crevasse

[specialed]

when you have to cut down a 2000 year old Old Growth Cedar with your alpenstock to cross a raging river, Munday style, you will be glad you went with the extra 25cm of shaft length. its the difference between a hatchet and an axe.

 

No, it is a difference of opinion. I like my ice axe, you like your ice hatchet. My grandfather was a carpenter and he always told me to use the right tool for the job. Same applies here. Don't use a screwdriver to pull nails, don't use a 80cm axe to climb steeps. I am just choosing the tool that best suits my "job". You do the same and together we will cure cancer, end world hunger and make the Balkans a better place to vacation. God bless Texas!!! (and your axe)

 

Yup. Except that the right tool for glacier slogs are ski poles and skis, not a big heavy old school axe.

[fern]

 

strap the axe to your pack. If the spike sticks out above the lid it is too long and will be a snaggy PITA while bushwacking so get a shorter one.

[K_Y_L_E]

 

 

Yup. Except that the right tool for glacier slogs are ski poles and skis, not a big heavy old school axe.

 

Way to go Ed, once again you have completely missed the bus (the short bus). My axe weighs 20 ounces and does not extend past my pack. My skis/boots weigh...what.....15pounds and extend 3 FEET from my pack. Again....for the slow kids different tools for different situations.

good luck pulling nails with that screwdriver.

 

you are aptly named.

[K_Y_L_E]

 

"or for using as a balancing bar while shitting in a crevasse "

 

That is the biggest advantage!! While doing the devils loop around jack mountain it came in pretty handy. At devils camp there is a wood box covering a crap hole. So instead of getting splinters and my ass bitten by spiders I hooked a tree that was a few feet in front of me and well....no splinters!

[specialed]

 

Yup. Except that the right tool for glacier slogs are ski poles and skis, not a big heavy old school axe.

 

Way to go Ed, once again you have completely missed the bus (the short bus). My axe weighs 20 ounces and does not extend past my pack. My skis/boots weigh...what.....15pounds and extend 3 FEET from my pack. Again....for the slow kids different tools for different situations.

good luck pulling nails with that screwdriver.

 

you are aptly named.

 

Have fun riding your axe down the hill bitch

[K_Y_L_E]

"Have fun riding your axe down the hill bitch"

 

Wow, Eddy (or is it Edith), you got me there. I mean, the way you called me a "bitch"....TOUCHE!! How do I respond to such witty retort? You are so eloquent and well versed. That must have take hours of research and fact-finding.

 

You seem a little cranky. Why don't you take a crap and a nap (and a Midol). I am sure there are tens of people that would agree that the ONLY way to travel on a glacier is skis, I am just not one of them. I am sorry that I did not agree with you. Life is full of disappointment, get used to it, your parents did.

 

Most of what I am talking about pertains to actually being on a rope bidding for the summit. It is hard to ski on a rope team. Do you ski up Dissappointment Cleaver? (Don’t answer that...I don't really care)

Have a swell day!

[specialed]

"Have fun riding your axe down the hill bitch"

 

Wow, Eddy (or is it Edith), you got me there. I mean, the way you called me a "bitch"....TOUCHE!! How do I respond to such witty retort? You are so eloquent and well versed. That must have take hours of research and fact-finding.

 

You seem a little cranky. Why don't you take a crap and a nap (and a Midol). I am sure there are tens of people that would agree that the ONLY way to travel on a glacier is skis, I am just not one of them. I am sorry that I did not agree with you. Life is full of disappointment, get used to it, your parents did.

 

Most of what I am talking about pertains to actually being on a rope bidding for the summit. It is hard to ski on a rope team. Do you ski up Dissappointment Cleaver? (Don’t answer that...I don't really care)

Have a swell day!