DOSEWALLIPS - We Lose Another Year

[sailBOI]

The USFS has withdrawn the decision to repair the Dosewallips Road. A revised EA will be released by this Fall.

 

http://www.peninsuladailynews.com/sited/story/html/166841

 

This work is only able to be done in the Fall, due to environmental constraints, so the road will remain closed this summer and next summer.

There is no question that we are losing 4 years of access due to a vocal minority who are utilizing convoluted environmental regulations in ways never intended by Congress, to eliminate an access corridor specifically mandated by Congress.

 

The saddest aspect is that Democracy itself is in jeoprady. As evidenced in these forums, most people want environmental protection, but not at the cost of lost access. The issue is that certain purists want the word "untrammeled" , as used in the Wilderness Act, to mean NO PEOPLE !

Your comments on the unfortunate delay can be addressed to:

 

appeals-pacificnorthwest-regional-office@fs.fed.us

 

Thanks......... www.brinnonprosperity.org

[JoshK]

I agree with your position, and I consider myself an environmental access. The road should be rebuilt. Your assertation that democracy itself is in danger is pretty over the top tho.

[Fairweather]

Sad news, indeed. Westside Road, Middle Fork Snoqualmie (soon), Carbon River Road (soon), and the list goes on.....

 

I sincerely hope that these enviro kooks will succeed in closing down a popular access like Cascade River Road, Mountain Loop Road, or Icicle Creek Road beyond the private holdings. Maybe then the hiking/climbing community will finally wake up and realize these envirionmental nazis are NOT the same friends they knew back in the 70's!

[JoshK]

some of them are for funding reasons, no? I thought that was the deal with MFS but I'm not really up to date.

[sailBOI]

I agree with your position, and I consider myself an environmental access. The road should be rebuilt. Your assertation that democracy itself is in danger is pretty over the top tho.

 

The rural areas of the Western US are increasingly being ruled by administrative environmental preceedures. If the Dark Greens don't get what they want in that manner, they move on to administration by litigation.

No doubt money is an issue, it doesn't grow on trees anymore, and NFS was forced to spend $100 million studying micro organisms, consequent to the NW Forest Plan. ONF will spend more answering the critics, than the Dosewallips Road repair costs. After all that, the Enviros cite the excessive cost of the repair in their appeals - gimme a break !

Then there is the cost to South Jefferson County of not having 55,000 Park visitors each season.

But what about people like you and Fairweatheer, how do you value 4 years of lost opportunities ?

Meanwhile, democracy is definitely threatened! We have most of our citizens, and all of our elected representatives on record for this repair, and a tiny minority continues to stop it....minority rule is what that is in my view.

We all own the ONP and are being barred from ready entry. In my 22 years of using the Dose Trail head, I never saw any abuse to the environment, many of these purists are avid hikers and they don't want to share this Park with the rest of us who have less time to get in there. If you read what they have been saying over the years on their web sites, the contempt shows pretty clearly!

www.brinnonprosperity.org

[johndavidjr]

If you want to read an eye-witness account of flying dinosaurs in Cuba, or why DNA is bunk, and various similar items, go to http://brinnonprosperity.org/focusitem_dosetrail.html and click on site marked Michael Crichton.

 

Or, if you like, click on Freedom21 & read about "relentless drive of U.N. for world domination" and how the "property rights" movement, Phyliss Schafly and even a few Congressmen, at least give us a shot at saving Democracy.

 

-----

[Fairweather]

I distinctly recall the environmental community citing the economic value of recreation whilst trying to salve the gaping wounds of timber communities on the penninsula and elsewhere during The Spotted Owl controversy. OK; The Spotted Owl won the day and timber harvests are a mere fraction of what they once were. So one would rightly expect the environmental community to support recreation economies in these devestated enclaves per their earlier proclamations... right?? HELL NO! Now the enemy is recreation itself!

 

The environmentalist of the 80's has gone back on his word to the good people in Brinnon, Forks, Darrington, and Randle. But this fight is only over if we give up.

[Fairweather]

some of them are for funding reasons, no? I thought that was the deal with MFS but I'm not really up to date.

 

No. The Middle Fork debacle was wrought by environmental groups like ALPS, MidForc, and even WTA! (..a " pro-trails" organization. )

[johndavidjr]

Brinnon labor force; 260

[Fairweather]

John,

 

It really is time to stop with the brinnonprosperity web-site bashing and start arguing this case on merit. If you go to any community website in America you'll find Chamber of Commerce, local business, and yes, even real estate links. What's the harm? Shall only a select list of groups be allowed to hold and publicly state positions on matters such as The Dosewallips Road repair?

 

Frankly, the militancy of modern environmental groups (and their lawyers) gives rise to the in-kind anti-government responses you see in links on the 'brinnon-site'.

[johndavidjr]

hmm. hmm.... creationism combined with notions that climate change is fiction, plus the other stuff, constitute an ill wind against reasoned argument. Maybe the answer is more spending on education.

 

I agree that the Dose road isn't a big deal. It's only 4.5 miles, though it will cost a great deal of federal money indeed to rebuild.

 

And yes all the tens of thousands of non-hikers/climbers will benefit, far more in number than backcountry users, and yes, I think these users should have the opportunity to drive back there, sleep in their trailers and stop at Brinnon to buy ice cream and enjoy themselves, as they have previously.

 

But I think the issue is being oversold as threat to democracy, and in big picture of USFS policy, can be used by small groups with big vested interests to stir up people who can't quite parse things out for themselves.

 

Hell if the USFS didn't subsidize the timber industry, there would be scads of money for recreation development--No? It's late here & I'm feeling cranky-- over & out.

 

____

[sailBOI]

hmm. hmm.... creationism combined with notions that climate change is fiction, plus the other stuff, constitute an ill wind against reasoned argument. Maybe the answer is more spending on education.

 

Please stop attempting to get this legitimate ACCESS thread moved to the SPRAY forum. I have asked you previously to stop denegrating me and my efforts. I am not a "creationist", and if you wish to compare educational credentials, this is not the place, but I will say that I am a scientist with considerable education !

Might I suggest that you not post when you have been drinking

 

( and thanks again for increasing the awareness toward www.brinnonprosperity.org )

[David_Parker]

As a climber, I don't mind the washout going unrepaired for another year or so. It makes for more of an adventure to climb Mt. Constance. It is much less crowded up there. I can understand why the average hiker is upset...there is a ranger station, campground and a trailhead to one of the more popular areas in the Olympics up there. Bring a mountain bike and enjoy the serenity it now offers. There is a silver lining to this cloud!

 

http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/threadz/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=UBB6&Number=222859&Forum=,,,,f6,,,,&Words=Constance%20ridge&Searchpage=4&Limit=25&Main=207935&Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=&daterange=0&newerval=&newertype=&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post222859

[Crux]

[quote

Please stop attempting to get this legitimate ACCESS thread moved to the SPRAY forum...

Legitimate access issue? I don't think so.

[RichardKorry]

We climbed Anderson last year and used Mt bikes to cover the 5 miles of road. It was no big deal and made the whole thing a bit more sporting. It also meant that the whole trail system was less crowded as we didn't see that many folks. I think the extra 5 miles will deter the RV crowd (obviously), and day hikers but not overnight hikers or climbers.

 

I'd like to see the road fixed but it's not like there are guard dogs preventing you from going up the Dose. It just means you need to sweat a bit more to do it. There are dozens of places around now that have access problems due to the latest set of storms last fall. The problem, IN GENERAL, is the LACK of funding, not law suits.

 

I'm sure if my business depended on people heading up the Dose, then I'd be clamoring for a fix as quickly as possible. But, remember, if this area was not Olympic NP but Olympic NF instead, you'd have stumps to hike through rather than old growth.

[JoshK]

I distinctly recall the environmental community citing the economic value of recreation whilst trying to salve the gaping wounds of timber communities on the penninsula and elsewhere during The Spotted Owl controversy. OK; The Spotted Owl won the day and timber harvests are a mere fraction of what they once were. So one would rightly expect the environmental community to support recreation economies in these devestated enclaves per their earlier proclamations... right?? HELL NO! Now the enemy is recreation itself!

 

The environmentalist of the 80's has gone back on his word to the good people in Brinnon, Forks, Darrington, and Randle. But this fight is only over if we give up.

 

Fairweather, i agree with the argument here that the road needs to be reopened.

 

I think, however, that the assertion that the environmentalist has gone back on his word is wrong, however. Times change...people "recreating" is a bigger threat than it was 20 years ago. The sad fact is tons of people in some previously seldom traveled areas causes damage.

[mattp]

Josh, I don't think you are correct in suggesting that "tons of people" are now visiting "previously seldom traveled areas." I could be wrong, but it is my distinct impression that wilderness hiking and wilderness climbing were every bit as popular, and probably more so, twenty-five years ago. There may be some areas that are now over-utilized due to the "Select Climbs" phenomenon, but I highly doubt that more people are now climbing Mount Constance or Mount Anderson than did so in the past. In the '70's, the Teton Climbers' Ranch was so crowded you had to camp in the parking lot; the last time I was there it was no problem to pull in and get a cabin for the night.

 

I don't disagree with those who argue for preservation, though, and while I believe the Dosewallips road should be reopened, I agree with Richard Korry that there is indeed a "silver lining" in this cloud.

[JoshK]

Matt, you may well be right. I guess I was jumping to conclusions given the apparent recent rise in climbing's popularity. It certainly seems as if more people are getting involved with it, but that certainly doesn't say anything about hiking then compared with now.

 

In any event, I still think that the environmentalist who argues for conservation now has not gone back on his word in any way. As the land recieves different pressures, the methods of protection will obviously have to change. Seeing some roads dissapear (which is, of course, speculation on these guys' part) in return for having a whole new area set aside as wilderness is a damn good deal in my book.

[Double_E]

I could be wrong, but it is my distinct impression that wilderness hiking and wilderness climbing were every bit as popular, and probably more so, twenty-five years ago. There may be some areas that are now over-utilized due to the "Select Climbs" phenomenon, but I highly doubt that more people are now climbing Mount Constance or Mount Anderson than did so in the past. In the '70's, the Teton Climbers' Ranch was so crowded you had to camp in the parking lot; the last time I was there it was no problem to pull in and get a cabin for the night.

 

I beg to differ, Matt. Don't have the stats to back this up, but I think hiking and climbing has gotten a LOT more popular in the last 25 yrs. I'd suspect that what you mention about changes in usage of that Teton (Tieton?) place is the exception & not the rule... less people may be going there but a lot more are going everywhere else.

 

And even if there isn't a higher per-capita hiking/climbing population now ... the nation and the planet is a lot more crowded than it was 25 yrs ago, and that's gonna make for a lot more recreationists ... AND non-recreationists.

[Double_E]

about the Dose road.. personally I'd like to see it reopened. I'm all for roadless areas and all, but let's face it, the Olympic range, even before the Dose road was shortened, was by far the biggest roadless area in this state (I think... right? anyone have the hard numbers on this?), simply cause of the fact that there's no roads crossing the range.

 

I think they should sooner rebuild the Dose road than any road in the Cascades with a similar level of pre-washout usage.

 

I guess I have a sort of sentimental attachment to the Dose valley cuz it was the second trailhead I ever experienced in WA State. in 1990, fresh outta high school, me and a buddy were travelling around the country seeking fame and fortune and eagles and ancient trees (erm, well, mostly the eagles and trees!) and the first hike we did here was a loop that went up the North Fork Skok and then down the Dosewallips. even tho it was August, we got rained on like hell for the last part of the 3-day hike, and MAN was it good to finally get to the little one-horse ranger station at the Dose trailhead.

 

and despite that cold, relentless August rain storm, them woods and mountains capivated me heart and mind enough to affect my choice of college, and three years later I was living in Olympia.

yep, Fairweather Sailboi et.al., I'm a transplant from one of the East Coast cities which you seem to love-to-hate. and I got a message for you and all your xenophobic kiin: this land is you land... this land is also my land... this land is also johndavidjr's land... this land is also JoshK's land... this land... er, you get the idea.

[johndavidjr]

You like hiking? So walk the extra four miles.

 

Realize that they want to relocate much of this road on to more stable ground, & not merely rebuild. This isn't a big deal in itself, since it's a short road. But it will cost some millions of dollars in federal subsidies to highway contractors. These funds could be better spent elsewhere on bridge repairs or other projects, that would offer a bigger pay-off to hikers and climbers.

 

This is not, repeat not, an "access issue" in any real sense. Nor is nearby thread on proposed wilderness designation.

 

 

_____

[mothboy88]

This is not, repeat not, an "access issue" in any real sense. Nor is nearby thread on proposed wilderness designation.

 

_____

 

You are obviously not a wheelchair user who would like to get to a campground.

[estivate]

Realize that they want to relocate much of this road on to more stable ground, & not merely rebuild.

 

Nah, they can't rebuild on the original alignment because it is now river. They want to put it up the hillside, which is decidedly NOT stable. I bet you haven't walked the flagged re-route alignment. It's not short, it's a half-mile of new road, through old forest, over a good deal of steep ground. Most everybody who does walk that road alignment thinks its a bad idea, even if they didn't think so before they looked.

[David_Parker]

You know some years not too long ago, you could drive a car right to the Olympic Hotsprings and rent a cabin. Now you hike abandoned road bed for 3-4 miles. A few years ago there was a wash out on the section between lake Mills and the current trail head and so you had to start way down there at the lake. This meant Mt. Bikes were a good choice. The point is, things change and people get used to it. Just think of the further change coming soon to the Elwah Valley. They will continue to argue for the next 25 years, but someday it will just be what it is after they blow the dams!

 

There are a number of trails in the Olympics that are so gradual that Mountain Bikes would work. Yet they are not allowed even though stock still is. I will argue anyday that stock does far more damage to trails than mountain bikes. The reason stock is allowed is because it always has been and you won't change it. The reason Bikes are not allowed is because they spook horses and trial hikers and go faster. That is a weak argument in my mind, but it is what it is. The National Park should look at the Dossiwallips as an opportunity to make a really nice mountain bike trail. They should just put the money into relocating their ranger station down near the washout. Then they should build a nice PATH or bridge (not for cars) to get past the washout and allow Mountain bikes up to the current ranger station. It is pretty mellow for the most part with a few "challenges" near the end. The RVers can have a nice new campground in the beautiful forest and maybe the existing campgrounds can be kept open for bikers and hikers to be able to camp with a short ride/hike AWAY from RVers. This would open it up to those people who are somwhere between serious hikers/climbers and the lazy ass RVers. Not all hikers/bikers need to get to Marmot pass to enjoy themselves. Keep in mind this is one end of the Enchantment Valley traverse of the range. 4-5 miles won't kill those users.

 

Oh, not to be a stickler Matt, but I was the one who mentioned the silver lining! I still see it that way. Mother Nature changed it and we need to accept it and rethink it's use.

 

And to think for a moment they wanted to rebuild the old man in the mountain in New Hampshire when it fell down!

Edited September 3, 2004 by David_Parker

[johndavidjr]

Where's G. Gordon Liddy? We need a reasonable counter-arguement.....

Edited September 3, 2004 by johndavidjr