Can't get much closer to a draft than this

[mr.radon]

Wow, imagine that, someone joins up for adventure, money and a change of scenery? That's never happened before? Hum, why did I join?

I'm not saying Peacenik's aren't patriotic. They would rather make love not war. Therefore eventually loosing the very freedoms they so cheerish.

[Ratboy]

Please tell me this Iraq mess we've gotten ourselves into isn't being considered as on par with the Revolutionary War and World War II.

[Mongo]

I'm not saying Peacenik's aren't patriotic. They would rather make love not war. Therefore eventually loosing the very freedoms they so cheerish.

I think Bush, Ashcroft, and our current congress are doing a fine job of taking away the freedoms we cherish.

[toptimmy]

just because someone is pro peace doesn't mean they wouldn't fight for their country or freedom.I do not understand the neo-con viewpoint that what we are doing in Iraq is defending our freedom.Afganistan I believe was totally justified and supported that 100%.I am just a little disturbed that the leaders of this country Did not finish that mission before they decided that Iraq was a immenate threat.After all The world had there thumb on Hussain for many years and by us playing cowboy and going in there alone to get the bad guy just made us look like the bad guy to most of the world IMHO.I support the troops that are in that hell hole right now I would not want to trade my life for thiers and I believe by asking questions about why we are there and how we plan to leave is my way of supporting those that are comming home in body bags.

[Rodchester]

To be sure, this type of call up has happened MANY times in the past, including Korea, and most recently in GWI.

 

When one enlists you enter into a contract with at least two (sometimes more) phases. Active duty, active reserve, and inactive reserve. The total term of the contract is presently 8 years. Post Vietnam I know it was 6 years until the mid to late 1980s, at which time it became 8 years. I know that during the Korea War era it was 8 years.

 

So if you enlist for say 2 years active duty, you then are discharged from active duty but put either into the inactive reserves, or if you want or already agreed, are put into the active reserves (weekend warrior one weekend a month two weeks in summer in Reserve unit or National Guard) for 6 years. Usually a recall will only include those discharged from active duty within the past year. This is for various reasons, including conditioning, training, and other issues. I got out in later 1989 at the same time as another guy. I had been in for a total of 7+ years under an older six year enlistment, while the other guy had been in for 3 years and enlisted under the 8 year system. I got my COMPLETE honorable discharge the day I got out.

 

He got pulled from college classes and sent to GWI. I drank beer and chased chicks.

 

Anyway, I was a young child during Vietnam, but I do recall the draft issue very clearly because my brother was about to be taken (low-number) in the 1973 draft. He was about to just go ahead and enlist hoping he might have more control over his duty assignment and station, when Nixon cancelled the draft.

 

This is not the draft and it is not Vietnam. Similarities? Sure. But there are MAJOR differences.

 

Is there an issue with the size of the military? Sure. But it is not due to the enlistment rate. It is a budgetary and NSP issue. The question is more one of our present military "mission table of organization and equipment." It isn't a draft issue.

 

 

You military and NSPS wonks out there know the clear differences in a military relying on recruitment and that of one on conscription. There are many differences, to many to list or discuss herein. rest assured, there are VERY few within the military, the NSPS community that want a draft of any type.

 

That said, the issue does allow for some interesting discourse on the effects on the society, as well as the military. i read a great paper by an NSPS student in college regarding the effect of decreasing family size on the social willingness to allow a draft.

[Blakej]

Damn this is the most mature positive post on this subject yet. Just waiting for someone to chime in with some assinine comment. As for the draft and this IRR crap heres my educated view. I served in Iraq and did what I was told to do kicking and screaming inside and worked with many IRR and Active reservist along the way. As a matter of fact half my platoon consisted of them and heres what I noted which pretty much compares with why the gov want to avoid draft and IRRs as much as they can. Not that they were bad guys or anything but for the most part as "trained warriors" they sucked. The only ones I can remerber that were worth a damn had just gotten out of boot champ with the right mentality and the willingness to absorb what was necessary to survive. The guys who had been in the reserves for 20 years had lost their decipline and skills to perform the job. Lets be honest one weekend a month for 5-20 years is not going to compare to an infantryman who lives it day in and day out. I cant count the times I had to put boot to ass and remind them where they were at. That said they were adequate and eventually shaped up fortunately at no loss of life but I would be terribly concerned if the gov were to institute a draft. To be honest I'd rather fight with half the men than have the other half of them men improperly trained and likely unwilling.

[markinore]

Ha,,,, hope your a gun nut like me too!!!! If not I have a few AK-47's I can sell you for your fight.

I'm well supplied, but thanks.

The chance of you getting drafted is pretty low. Unless of corse we get a Democrate in office.

The chance of my getting drafted is zero. The chance of my sons' getting drafted is not. If we get a "Democrate" in office and he starts a draft, then he is my mortal enemy.

I'd like to see your face when old junior says dad I'm going into the Army.. :-)

Thankfully, the chance of that is zero also. My kids are as antiwar as I am.

BTW can you help me plant flags on Veteran graves this Memorial weekend or will you be too busy climbing?

Gee, planting flags on graves? What a wonderful, feel-good activity. Sorry, no. I'll be too busy working on preventing the need for more graves.

[foraker]

http://www.congress.org/congressorg/issues/alert/?alertid=5834001&content_dir=ua_congressorg

[markinore]

Thanks for posting that, Foraker.

 

I suggest that all of us who are against this war volunteer for positions on the draft board--and then just grant everyone an exemption!

[gotterdamerung]

I can't quite recall where in the constitution there is a article that allows you to choose where and when YOU'LL decide you should serve. Maybe you can enlighten me?

 

Here's some wisdom for you dad, since you're so worried about your own life and that of your kids. Clearly you think you are above every other person who serves, served, or will serve in the future. You shit on every other American who has a child serving when you tell your kids to run away from mandatory service and you shit on every other American that answered the call when it came for them whether they agreed or disagreed with the conflict at hand.

 

You place your own morals and values above all else and assume that you are right. You talk about indignation about the fact that there may be a draft in the future. I say you'll find yourself on the losing end of the stick this time old man. There won't be any amnesty this time around. We better start building some more prisons and recruiting more knuckle draggers to cart your ilk off to where they belong.

[mr.radon]

Ha,,,, hope your a gun nut like me too!!!! If not I have a few AK-47's I can sell you for your fight.

I'm well supplied, but thanks.

Great! Can I offer you a class in gun safety? If not marksmanship might be more in line with your needs. Nothing more dangerous then a gun owner with no clue!

The chance of you getting drafted is pretty low. Unless of course we get a Democrat in office.

The chance of my getting drafted is zero. The chance of my sons' getting drafted is not. If we get a "Democrat" in office and he starts a draft, then he is my mortal enemy.

Funny how the only members of Congress to ask for a draft are the D. Sad to see anyone use this as a political football.

I'd like to see your face when old junior says dad I'm going into the Army.. :-)

Thankfully, the chance of that is zero also. My kids are as antiwar as I am.

My son's babysitter thought this too. One needed college money, one wanted to escape a bad marriage.

BTW can you help me plant flags on Veteran graves this Memorial weekend or will you be too busy climbing?

Gee, planting flags on graves? What a wonderful, feel-good activity. Sorry, no. I'll be too busy working on preventing the need for more graves.

Feel good? I have sex to feel good. This is about honoring people who served our country and the day set aside for this.

Since the Civil War very few people have died in combat compared to those that have served in the military.

I'm talking about the millions of veterans graves, people that served and returned form war, not just those who died in combat. All the graves marked as WWII or WWI veterans were war returnees; in those wars we buried our fallen where they fell. I'm not flying to France to plant flags. Wait, wasn't France full of Peacenik's when Hitler stormed over their country in what? 21 days??? How many Americans died giving them their country back?

Anyway, my small part to honor those that did serve our country.

[markinore]

Clearly you think you are above every other person who serves, served, or will serve in the future. You shit on every other American who has a child serving when you tell your kids to run away from mandatory service and you shit on every other American that answered the call when it came for them whether they agreed or disagreed with the conflict at hand.

 

On the contrary, I agree with Michael Moore's comment from Fahrenheit 9/11 (MAYBE coming to a theater near you) regarding our soldiers: "They serve so that we don't have to. They offer to give up their lives so that we can be free. It is, remarkably, their gift to us. And all they ask for in return is that we never send them into harm's way unless it is absolutely necessary."

 

Granted, Moore is overreaching to speak for all members of the armed forces. I think, however, that it profoundly expresses what is or what should be an implied contract between a free society and its military defenders. WWII was "absolutely necessary;" the current mess is not.

 

You, GD, are obviously fully informed of the risks of what you do. You have chosen to accept the risks, and I respect your willingness to stand on your principles. I will grieve if an ill fate befalls you. While all deaths in this war are tragic, I would probably grieve a bit more for the children of Mr. Radon's babysitter, who join the military not out of choice but out of necessity, in order to get money for college or escape a bad marriage.

[Rodchester]

All the graves marked as WWII or WWI veterans were war returnees; in those wars we buried our fallen where they fell.

 

Actually, while most were burried where they fell (usually gathered up and interned into local graves, tagged and registered) many if not most were eventually dug up and returned to US soil for proper burial. Other's were dug up and put into more formal centralized grave yards with memorials.

 

I knew a frenchman that was born and raised in northern France. His grandmother made him plant American flags on memorial day every year and would spank him if he cursed America or complained saying that they are free because of America.

 

I respect working toward preventing the need for future graves, but we should not let this cloud our view of those fallen in the past...least we forget.

 

Show respect this Memorial day. It doesn't mean you agree, it means you remember.

 

 

I don't want to see anyone's sons drafted.