mothboy88 Posted May 12, 2004 Posted May 12, 2004 I have been very excited about the prospect of Hybrid autos becoming more mainstream. Obviously reduced emissions is a good thing. But I was also under the impression that they would cost less in the long run due to saved fuel cost and tax rebates. This article Link Here argues that the savings are not as likely as I thought due to increased up front costs. Add to that - the batteries are very expensive (1-2K?) to replace and no one really knows how long they will last. I have heard that the manufacturers are not very helpful in helping consumers figure this out. Of course if gas cost continue to skyrocket or stay high, that changes the value equasion. Anyone know more about batteries for the hybrids? Are there other hidden costs? Do the batteries create environmental problems of their own? Thoughts anyone? Quote
Alasdair Posted May 12, 2004 Posted May 12, 2004 Ok here is more info than you need to know... I belive the Prius 2 battery pack is $800 retail. Toyota are giving an 8 year guarantee. That pack price includes some anciliary cooling structures that are needed No one knows what the true cost is Taht battery is NiMH. it is generally agreed that that is dead end technology. it works but ti will nevere be the cost effectove solution. The great hopes are Li Ion and Li polymer These are running on sample vehicles and of course are used on laptops. Energy density is about twice NiMH. power density not much different. Life unknown NiMh is a fairly safe technology. Not much to go wrong in an accident. Over or undercharging generally not a problem at least as far as safety is concerned Lithium in either from has safety isues. It can burn quite viciously, but I guess no worse than gasoline. It can explode if a short circuit happens in an accident, and it can be violent One of the main issues is working temperature. Below freezing the battery must be heated, above 120 the battery must be cooled. Sadly this takes a large amount of energy, which will end your great gas consumption. Unless any battery is recycled properly it will definatly cause enviromental problems. They are not something you want to dump at the side of the road. Luckily the material batteries contain have monetarty value even when the battery is done, so recycling incentives are not a problem. You want to save money, go look at a Golf TDI. Quote
selkirk Posted May 12, 2004 Posted May 12, 2004 Last I saw the TDI's run around 45-50 mpg, diesel. It also looks like the contaminant levels on diesel are going to come down thanks the EPA as well. Really a pretty good idea. Quote
Recycled Posted May 12, 2004 Posted May 12, 2004 TDIs are better environmentally unless you do a lot of stop and go driving. Hybrids do very well in traffic, less well on longer hauls. TDIs have a lot of power and are also the only car that allows you to run an alternative non-fossil fuel (biodiesel). Then there are the PC factors: climate change, energy security, unnecessary wars, not supporting the Saudis and all that. I should know - we have 2 TDIs, both running 100% biodiesel. Quote
JoshK Posted May 12, 2004 Posted May 12, 2004 Most of all, at least hybrids, clean burning TDIs are a step in the right direction! They are not perfect yet, but it's a hellavu lot better than the current crop of gas guzzlers and SUVs. Quote
JoshK Posted May 12, 2004 Posted May 12, 2004 Last I saw the TDI's run around 45-50 mpg, diesel. It also looks like the contaminant levels on diesel are going to come down thanks the EPA as well. Really a pretty good idea. diesels are also getting very cheap to convert to biofuel. Hopefully we'll start to see the cost of this come down. At that point a TDI is probably the best choice currently in existance! Quote
whirlwind Posted May 12, 2004 Posted May 12, 2004 Last I saw the TDI's run around 45-50 mpg, diesel. It also looks like the contaminant levels on diesel are going to come down thanks the EPA as well. Really a pretty good idea. soon bio disel prices will be able to compete with disel, right now bio is about 3 a gallon but thats is becasue there are no pumps and most, if not all of it is transported to people by trucks. bio burns sinifigantly cleaner and comes from a renewable reasource, you can also mix bio and regular diesel from 1% to 100% and it will burn in any diesel motor. the only down falls right now are price and at 100% bio you lose about 2 or so MPG Quote
Mal_Con Posted May 12, 2004 Posted May 12, 2004 We rented a Mercedes A type diesel in France last year and got near 60mpg. It would be a great commuter and costs about 14k. they do not sell them here though. Probably because they would not sell any Chryslers here. They also have ultra filtered diesel there. Quote
mothboy88 Posted May 13, 2004 Author Posted May 13, 2004 Interesting arcticle Link Great article. My excitment for the hybrid thing taking off is definately getting harshed. Quote
AlpineK Posted May 13, 2004 Posted May 13, 2004 huh. That's disappointing. Maybe TDI is the the next big thing. Quote
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