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ChrisL

Looking for a guide up Mt Rainier

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I took two people up last year who had never been up and I plan to do the same this year. It was fun, everybody was safe, and it was succesful. I did spend a day going over everything with them and made sure that they could do every part efficiently, without help or coaching.

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The two points that I want to put across to ChrisL in my blunt asshole style are simply:

 

1.Paying some dude to guide you and your bud up Rainier is illegal and ill advised. Play by the rules on the mtns. . Rules suck but I still do follow them and expect the same of everyone else up there. If you aren't following the rules then I am going to be a big dick to you. Show some respect to the mtns and the people who manage them for your enjoyment.

2. If some dude(singular ...and what you were looking for in your post,chrisl) agrees to take you and your bud up then I would doubt his judgement even with a day or two of training. If the "guide" gets hurt or goes into a crevasse they are gonna be pretty clueless how to really get themselves out of the situation w/o some guidance right there "holding their hands". And as an experienced climber, I sure don't want newbies placing anchors for a z pulley when I am dangling free w/o someone up there watching them who knows their shit too. Finally, I feel an experienced climber has a serious obligation to "shitbrick newbies" because newbies don't know or understand all the things that can go wrong up there yet. Putting a couple new climbers in the middle of the rope on an experienced team(plural!) is fine but two newbies and just 1 experienced climber just ain't safe... for them or the "guide". ChrisL may not realize that yet.

 

Chris_reiman...I am glad your climb went off without a hitch but it doesn't mean it is a safe way to climb,dude.

 

Chisl, good luck in your climbing and by your last post sounds like you are heading towards being on the right track. Go get some good experienced PARTNERS and do some easy rts on Hood and Adams. Good luck.

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Hey, go for it, dude. Take him up. When you take a plunge into crevasse and your shitbrick newbie partners can't remember how to get you out then you'll be thinking different.

 

When you were guiding ,I would imagine there were other guides on these climbs, as well? That makes a big difference...that's plain reckless otherwise. But then Mountain Madness was pretty reputable too til they got a bunch of people killed on some big famous peak in the Hima. rolleyes.gif

 

It is a common practice for guides to take beginners up mountains on a one to one ratio without other guides around. The reality of this situation is that the guide understands that if something should go down, he will have to be the one to deal with it. And a guide who is well trained will be able to deal with it...

 

Guiding Mount Rainier or Mount Baker is an incredibly long stretch from guiding an 8000 Meter Peak. I'm no expert on guiding those types of mountains, but I do know that guiding the volcanos on small ratios with experienced PROFESSIONAL guides is about as safe as it's going to get...

 

Jason

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The time of year that I took them was July when there's a billion people and there's no question about route finding. I understand and respect your opinion though don't get me wrong. These were not dumb or unsafe people, one was an ER physician and the other was a paramedic. I could see that if I didn't know these 2 very well and didn't spend time with them beforehand it could've been disasterous.

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Hey, go for it, dude. Take him up. When you take a plunge into crevasse and your shitbrick newbie partners can't remember how to get you out then you'll be thinking different.

 

When you were guiding ,I would imagine there were other guides on these climbs, as well? That makes a big difference...that's plain reckless otherwise. But then Mountain Madness was pretty reputable too til they got a bunch of people killed on some big famous peak in the Hima. rolleyes.gif

 

confused.gif What are you talking about? confused.gif

 

M2 didn't get anyone killed. All M2 clients lived. In fact, the M2 clients had very few injuries ... only minor frost bite. wazzup.gif Sure it was close at times, in fact very close, but the reality is (and all note this) the M2 clients and guides saved others. blush.gif

 

Obvioulsy, Scott Fischer did not live, most believe it was due to his pre-existing intestinal problem.

 

Those that died (clients) were from a New Zealand company (Adventure Consultants). Yes, AC was and is a good company with strong guides and still look what happened. frown.gif

 

Comparing Everest guiding to Rainier guiding is a bit of a stretch, don't you think? wazzup.gif Talk about bad advice. rolleyes.gif

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ChrisL,

 

Sorry to get on my soap-box:

 

Whatever you decide to do, please do not break the law (e.g., by hiring a non-concessioned guide). I believe that in the long run, illegal guiding endangers access for all climbers. The Park Service's rules vis-a-vis guiding may seem arbitrary and inflexible, but at least the general public is allowed the privilege to climb on Rainier. The vast majority (but not all) of the climbing parties on Rainier benefit at least to some extent from services provided by the NPS (road to paradise, parking at paradise, climbing rangers at Muir, outhouses at Muir, etc). [And don't laugh about the outhouses-- it helps keep Camp Muir from becoming a turd-infested cesspool.] The least we can do (collectively) is to try and play by their rules.

 

Just my opinion. I'm sure there are plenty of other people on this site who would say "screw the NPS-- do what you want". But they are wrong.

 

Well, ultimately it is your choice. I do hope you have a great time (and good weather) on Rainier. Climb safe. wave.gif

 

Cheers,

Steve

Edited by Stephen_Ramsey

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griz, while your opinion on this situation is what's valid for you, you're not a spokesperson for anyone else.

 

Motivation is a difficult thing, but I (for example) plan on taking some friends up old RainDog this year, and they will have no experience whatsoever. Are they paying me? Nope. They are people I sail my boat with, and who have expressed a stong desire to climb Rainier. I won't make climbers out of them, but I can help them achieve their goals using my own skills and experience. Am I a GUIDE? No. Can you say I or they don't belong up there? No. On that note, there's very little difference between me taking my friends up the RainDog, and someone like ChrisL and partner hitching along as a semi-autonomous party if we are up some slog route (which is what I intend to do). No one is suggesting that ChrisL be shortroped up Ptarmigan!

 

ChrisL, while I personally am not really willing to take on more people for my trip, the suggestions made by Over40 is exactly what I would tell you: Come out here, do a trip up Adams South Side, do other trips like Hood, Baker, Glacier. Practice self arrest and crevasse rescue on each trip. Lower into a real crevasse, and prussik out! Get hip deep into it all. Build the skills. Maybe save Rainier for next year, when you can do it under your own power, with your own experience and judgement. It doesnt take all that much to climb Rainier in good weather, but its the skills you develop during these first critical trips that will help you in the long run.

 

Getting up Adams, Baker, and Hood in one trip will be an awesome time in itself!!!

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Rodchester, I think it's been 7 years since I read those books on that Everest fiasco, ya know? And not much longer since I gave a shit about it or gave it much thought. BFD... and has nothing to do with the point I was making there...If you don't get it, I don't care.

The only post in this thread I want to be crystal clear with is my previous one.

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at least the general public is allowed the privilege to climb on Rainier.

 

yelrotflmao.gif

 

Just my opinion. I'm sure there are plenty of other people on this site who would say "screw the NPS-- do what you want". But they are wrong.

 

Just my opinion, but if you don't agree with my opinion you are WRONG. cantfocus.gifyelrotflmao.gif

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Stephen_Ramsey said:

The Park Service's rules vis-a-vis guiding may seem arbitrary and inflexible, but at least the general public is allowed the privilege to climb on Rainier.

 

Wow Steve, you and I sure feel differently about "The Man" and the mountains. I hope there aren't a lot of people out there that feel the same way as you about wilderness/mountain access or we'll all be kissing our "privileges" goodbye in the near future.

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Shut up, beyotch! Did I give you permission to speak? I didn't think so!

 

Steve, your opinion is weird and scary. wave.gif

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