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Peter_Puget

Will she resign?

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Brown then told him "you all look alike to me," the participants said.

 

Sounds like it was a big party.

 

FUnny shit in the body politic.

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if the people of florida have a clue, they'll vote her out next november

 

[Edit] Two More Years! [/Edit]

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I have heard the arguement that says one can only be racist when their bias is against a group that has power over the. I don't think that holds much water, but it is an interesting point.

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I have heard the arguement that says one can only be racist when their bias is against a group that has power over the. I don't think that holds much water, but it is an interesting point.

This isn't so much an argument as it is an effort to redefine the word "racism" in the english language.

 

Why would you change the definition of a word to be out of line with common usage and out of line with established dictionaries?

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im waiting for some left-wing wacko to back her up citing a first amendment right to free-speech.

rolleyes.gif

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I have heard the arguement that says one can only be racist when their bias is against a group that has power over the. I don't think that holds much water, but it is an interesting point.

This isn't so much an argument as it is an effort to redefine the word "racism" in the english language.

 

Why would you change the definition of a word to be out of line with common usage and out of line with established dictionaries?

 

True on the effort to redefine the word. However, I have no beef with that effort in general. Language is a living thing, we don't speak Middle English anymore, it has morphed. And we come up with new words like cyber this and cyber that to explain what hasn't existed heretofore.

So, what would the new racism word be? I don't like reverse-racism, because that to me means the opposite of racism.

Any suggestions?

Humor most welcome. pitty.gif

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I have heard the arguement that says one can only be racist when their bias is against a group that has power over the. I don't think that holds much water, but it is an interesting point.

This isn't so much an argument as it is an effort to redefine the word "racism" in the english language.

 

Why would you change the definition of a word to be out of line with common usage and out of line with established dictionaries?

 

True on the effort to redefine the word. However, I have no beef with that effort in general. Language is a living thing, we don't speak Middle English anymore, it has morphed. And we come up with new words like cyber this and cyber that to explain what hasn't existed heretofore.

So, what would the new racism word be? I don't like reverse-racism, because that to me means the opposite of racism.

Any suggestions?

Humor most welcome. pitty.gif

 

We don't speak middle english, but I think the dictionary/language changed to keep up with common usage. If you take 100 people who aren't currently enrolled in a multi-cultural awareness class, I don't think any of them will say:

 

Prejudice + Power = Racism

 

Why change the meaning of the word to be other than how it is used?

 

We also invent new words to describe new things (like cyberspace) That seems more appropriate here.

 

What about

"Tyrannical Racism"? (Oh, that doesn't work, because the minority can also be Tyrannical)

 

"Empowered Racism"? (oh, that doesn't really sound good "Empowered" has a positive ring to it)

 

Why do we need a new word? We still call a punch a punch whether the person has the muscle to back it up or not. Both the weak and strong puncher are wrong in thier intent to injure, but the person with muscle is going to do a lot more damage. But it's still a punch.

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racism takes many forms. even will intentioned ones like those spoofed here: blackpeopleloveus.com

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Meanwhile, Haiti is set to become a blood-bath, and we're staying home and turning away refugees. Let the UN handle it. No oil, I guess.

What would you do, DooLittle?

Military intervention or Take refugees or both?

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Meanwhile, Haiti is set to become a blood-bath, and we're staying home and turning away refugees. Let the UN handle it. No oil, I guess.

 

precisely, and let's not discuss the bush administration squeezing the aristide government. charges have repeatedly been made by members of congress about noriega's ingerence in haiti's affairs, but we would not read about it in Faux News. also they won't let the UN handle it because it's our backyard. the french have already said they were ready to move in under UN mandate.

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Meanwhile, Haiti is set to become a blood-bath, and we're staying home and turning away refugees. Let the UN handle it. No oil, I guess.

 

precisely, and let's not discuss the bush administration squeezing the aristide government. charges have repeatedly been made by members of congress about noriega's ingerence in haiti's affairs, but we would not read about it in Faux News. also they won't let the UN handle it because it's our backyard. the french have already said they were ready to move in under UN mandate.

 

No oil is why France is willing to move. cantfocus.gif

 

Ignorance - exactly. rolleyes.gif

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Wonder why she thought only people whose skin color is black could fully appreciate the situation in Haiti. Sure, I'm one of the non descript white guys, but just am not sure why anyone who lives in the US would have any kind of special knowledge or empathy into the plight of the average Haitian citizen. Just because you skin is a color is dark, you suddenly "get" what is going on in a country like Haiti????? Where, by the way, there is no ruling white majority oppressing any other racial minority. If anything, the guy who was from Cuba, regarless of his skin color, most likely had a better grasp on the situation than most african americans would. Poor lady doesn't have a clue.

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Wonder why she thought only people whose skin color is black could fully appreciate the situation in Haiti.

 

and what makes you think she said this?

 

Poor lady doesn't have a clue.

 

and why would this be?

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Haiti gained independence from France in 1805 or something like that. They have had 200 yrs to put together something and have failed everytime. The last time we went down there in the early '90s it didn't, why would it now?

I don't like dying people and refugees anymore than anyone else, but unless somebody can come up with a plan that will work, there is no reason to intervene.

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Haiti gained independence from France in 1805 or something like that. They have had 200 yrs to put together something and have failed everytime.

 

do you mean failed like everyone else in central america and the caribbeans that ever tried to build spomething that we did not approve of? gee! i wonder what happened ... perhaps you ought to check the pedigree of the 'rebels'.

 

The last time we went down there in the early '90s it didn't, why would it now?

 

do you mean when we found out that we had trained the coup leaders and they were on our payroll? and then we forced aristide to privatize banking, etc in exchange for holding back the coup leaders?

 

I don't like dying people and refugees anymore than anyone else, but unless somebody can come up with a plan that will work, there is no reason to intervene.

 

yeah right! because in this case the people taking over the cities are not terrorists, right? wrong, they are paramilitaries with a very scary human right violation record. or is it because aristide was not a popularly elected president? wrong again, aristide was elected twice by an overwhelming majority and the wealthy political opposition does not have a prayer of reaching power through democratic means considering the economic disparities between the elite and haitians. or is it because aristide did not deliver what he promised? well, that's kind of hard to do when a country as poor as haiti faces an embargo from the most powerful nation on earth and when imf funds do not come through. which is not to say that aristide himself does not bear some responsibility.

 

peter puget likes to call out where he sees hypocrisy (from his own strange point of view of course). no only does he seem to shirk his duties in a major way (terrorists versus rebels, promoting democracy versus the usual heavy-handed tactics such as coup and other destabilization attempts), but on the contrary he managed to stress the shortcomings of the few friends haiti has in the US without even bothering to present the context. way to go chump. rolleyes.gif

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"The State Department delegation that came to meet with us did not include any females or people of color. Given the racial makeup of the people of Haiti, who are 95 percent of African descent, I felt the delegation and the delegation's position were callous and out of touch with the needs (cultural and otherwise) of the Haitian people," she wrote.

 

JB, did you actually read the article or just automatically assume I was an idiot?

 

Had you bothered to read the article, you would have also discovered that the delegation included a Cuban born American and was chaired by a Mexican American. You know, more callous "white men".

 

I stand corrected, neither rep. Brown nor JB has a clue

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"The State Department delegation that came to meet with us did not include any females or people of color. Given the racial makeup of the people of Haiti, who are 95 percent of African descent, I felt the delegation and the delegation's position were callous and out of touch with the needs (cultural and otherwise) of the Haitian people," she wrote.

 

JB, did you actually read the article or just automatically assume I was an idiot?

 

 

the statement above and yours are not equivalent. saying that the commission's position was racist, that 95% of haitians are of african descent (descendants of slaves) and no african-americans were on the commissions is not the same as thinking that "only people whose skin color is black could fully appreciate the situation in Haiti". her statement only means that this commission is racist and it needs african-americans on board to rectify the problem. do i need to pick it apart further?

 

 

Had you bothered to read the article, you would have also discovered that the delegation included a Cuban born American and was chaired by a Mexican American. You know, more callous "white men".

 

it does not mean they personally don't behave as white men would w.r.t haitians.

 

I stand corrected, neither rep. Brown nor JB has a clue

 

funny guy.

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95% haitians are of African descent, no people on commision of African descent, commission therefore callous and out of touch with needs cultural and otherwise of Haitian people?

 

Sorry, but I just don't understand this logic?

 

By this logic is it fair to say that people who don't have the same ethnic heritage can't be objective, thoughtful, and be capable for forming fair and rational opinions or policies?

 

I say again, what does being from African descent have to do with being "in touch" with needs of Haitian people or for that matter of African people unless the person is only a 1st or 2nd generation American and came from the place in question?

 

Maybe I'm just obtuse, but I can't see how an average African American person would have any better capability to be in touch with people from Haiti that any other American.

 

Again, my thought is that the person on the commission from Cuba (Caribbian island nation with oppressive government) is probably likely to be "in touch" with the situation.

 

Sure, an African American with special ties or knowledge of current political and cultural events in Haiti might be great for the commission, but because the person had exceptional relevant knowledge of Haiti and not because they happened to be of African descent.

 

My thought is that having experts in politics in a region is more important that counting and judging people's intentions and capabilities based 100% on a person's historical ethic hertitage of the place of origin of their ancestors.

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context. context. context.

 

here is some context:context

 

"Roger Noriega has been dedicated to ousting Aristide for many, many years, and now he's in a singularly powerful position to accomplish it," Robert White, a former U.S. ambassador to El Salvador and Paraguay, said last week.

 

White, now president of the Center for International Policy, a think tank in Washington, said Noriega's ascent largely has been attributed to his ties to North Carolina Republican Jesse Helms, an arch-conservative foe of Aristide who had behind-the-scenes influence over policy toward Latin America and the Caribbean before retiring from the Senate two years ago.

 

"Helms didn't just dislike Aristide, Helms loathed Aristide because he saw in Aristide another Castro," said Larry Birns, director of the Washington-based Council on Hemispheric Affairs, which has been strongly critical of the Bush administration's policy on Haiti.

 

Working hand in hand with Noriega on Haiti has been National Security Council envoy Otto Reich, who, like Noriega, is ardently opposed to Cuban leader Fidel Castro, say analysts such as Birns. Washington diplomats have seen Aristide as a leftist who is often fierce in his denunciations of the business class and slow to make recommended changes such as privatizing state-run industries.

 

"On a day-to-day basis, Roger Noriega [has been] making policy, but with a very strong role played by Otto Reich," Birns said.

 

Reich is a controversial Cuban-American criticized by some who have lingering concerns about his contacts with opposition figures who plotted a short-lived coup against Venezuela's leftist president, Hugo Chávez, two years ago. Reich also is linked to the Iran-contra scandal of two decades ago that was part of President Ronald Reagan's policy of defeating Marxists in Central America.

 

Noriega's involvement with Haiti dates back more than a decade. In the early 1990s he was an adviser at the U.S. mission to the Organization of American States. Between 1994 and 1997, he served as a senior staff member on the House of Representatives' Committee on International Relations. Then, in 1997, he went to work for the Senate's Committee on Foreign Relations as a top aide to Helms.

 

Helms was passionate in his dislike of Aristide and tried mightily to stop President Bill Clinton from sending troops to restore Aristide to power in 1994 after his violent ouster three years previously. In an attempt to forestall that military action, Helms released a now-discredited CIA report purporting to show Aristide was "psychotic."

 

Helms found a like-minded official in Noriega, who fed the senator's hostility toward Aristide, said Robert Maguire of Trinity College in Washington.

 

"Roger Noriega always sought to have a long leash when it came to Haiti, and Helms was more than happy to accommodate anti-Aristide feelings," Maguire said.

 

In 2001, with Helms' strong backing, Noriega, a Kansas native of Mexican descent, was appointed U.S. permanent representative to the Organization of American States.

 

In their various foreign policy postings during the past several years, Noriega and Reich became behind-the-scenes leaders of "a relatively small group of people" who developed strategies toward Haiti, Maguire said."

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Very interesting... really.

 

However, if rep. Brown had said that she had specific issues with people on the commission based upon their POV and historical ties to groups that she felt had an agenda she couldn't support, she would have come off as intelligent and rational.

 

Maybe the commission that met on Haiti was callous and out of touch, but as per my original statement, it is not because they weren't African American.

 

I would suggest that logic and fact based statements would have been more valuable in this case than the convenient and illogical random tossing out of the "race card".

 

If she thought the people she was working with were bigots and racists and that is the reason why she didn't value their contribution.... I get it.

 

But saying adding African Americans to the panel is what was necessary to insure people who were "in touch with Haiti" is still a bunch of bunk. Just because you are black, doesn't mean you know shit about Haiti.

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