pope Posted May 7, 2002 Share Posted May 7, 2002 Next time you pull into Larry's Tool Yard with the intent of hiking up to Snow Creek Wall, consider taking Pope n' Dwayner's secret blitzkrieg approach route: the Pearly Back Door. After waiting out squally snow and rain showers at the Pearly Gates, we decided to check out this alternate route to SCW and we're pleased to announce that we shaved 17 minutes off of our fastest car-to-rope-up time by choosing the Pearly Back Door instead of the standard Snow Lake trail approach. When you see Dwayner and I starting the Snow Lake trail approach for one of SCW's crowded classics, if you decide to try to get there first, please use the Pearly Back Door approach so that you'll be up the wall a couple of pitches when we arrive. [ 05-06-2002, 06:27 PM: Message edited by: pope ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadSpace Posted May 7, 2002 Share Posted May 7, 2002 What's wrong with the current trail? Can't you motivate yourself to run up or down it, pack too full of pro? I'd consider using the current trail or going somewhere else...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted May 7, 2002 Share Posted May 7, 2002 It figures give me head would be the one to talk smack again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted May 7, 2002 Share Posted May 7, 2002 So here is a question Mr. "bolts are bad for the environment," What kinda trail is this your talkin about? Is it established? Switchbacks? Or is it just another climber's scar leading from point A to point B in the shortest time possible? Just curious, thanks in advance for the clarification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted May 7, 2002 Share Posted May 7, 2002 It's a scar on the mountain. The rock at Pearly Gates and Snow Creek Wall is closed due to Falcons. Go to Smith Rox it is much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted May 7, 2002 Share Posted May 7, 2002 Don't worry caveman...you wont see me there. Index is too tempting after being in the car for an hour. I've only climbed in Leavenworth once on a weekday, otherwise it sounds like a zoo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pope Posted May 7, 2002 Author Share Posted May 7, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Lambone: So here is a question Mr. "bolts are bad for the environment," What kinda trail is this your talkin about? Is it established? Switchbacks? Or is it just another climber's scar leading from point A to point B in the shortest time possible? Just curious, thanks in advance for the clarification. Firstly, thanks but no thanks for attibuting that quote to me. What I said is, bolts are ugly and alien to the mountain environment, and while their use is acceptable under special circumstances, the proliferation of bolts in the last two decades is evidence that climbing, as defined by modern practices, is just another pussy sport. Sorry, Allison. About the trail: yes it's fast, and it follows a game migration route which, if you didn't know, seems to stay on the contour, and so erosion is minimal. I would say the old climbers root crawl, from where it leaves Snow Creek trail, is about as rutted out as I've seen in the Cascades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted May 7, 2002 Share Posted May 7, 2002 Cool...yeah, obviously I was just trying to pick out another contradiction between what you practice and what you preach, but alas my evil plot was foiled. Sounds legit enough...yet I doubt Larry the Tool would aprove. How about some more specific details about this alternate route? When do you cut up from the main trail to access that contour? Pardon my ignorance, I haven't been up there yet. Sure would be nice o have a faster route when I carry my drill and bag'o bolts up to Snow Creek wall this summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pope Posted May 7, 2002 Author Share Posted May 7, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Lambone: Cool...yeah, obviously I was just trying to pick out another contradiction between what you practice and what you preach You could spend the rest of your life trying to find just one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted May 7, 2002 Share Posted May 7, 2002 Word is you've drilled a few holes in your time..., but I'll let that dead horse rest. A while ago I recal you saying,(pardon me if the wording is not exact), something about how sport climbers lead to the degredation of climbing areas, because they tend to litter, not follow trails, chip holds, drill bolts, steal gear, ect. Yet here you are recomending that people forge their own route up to Snow Creek Wall, via, some discrete game trail. As if that human activite has no environmental impacts. Sorry if I sound like an asshole for pointing this out, but I'm just tryin to figure you out man... Cheers, have a good night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAMAZONIA Posted May 7, 2002 Share Posted May 7, 2002 Originally posted by Lambone: [QB]So here is a question Mr. "bolts are bad for the environment," He is the Pope, he has a large following of devoted fanatics, he can say or do what he wants. Look out Bone he will send you to hell and damnnation or worse yet he will hit you with a boring 1000 word post on the justifcation of his climbing ethics. Only people that live in the real world of the outdoors get up this early, rise and sleep with the sun its natural. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted May 7, 2002 Share Posted May 7, 2002 Lambone, I dont care who goes to what crag to be honest. When full summer heat goes into effect I plan on being in Cashmere Crags anyway. I'll see if Larry the Tool's fatness can make it back there Temple Canyon looks good to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pope Posted May 7, 2002 Author Share Posted May 7, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Lambone: Word is you've drilled a few holes in your time..., but I'll let that dead horse rest. A while ago I recal you saying,(pardon me if the wording is not exact), something about how sport climbers lead to the degredation of climbing areas, because they tend to litter, not follow trails, chip holds, drill bolts, steal gear, ect. Your quoting accuracy is improving. quote: Originally posted by Lambone: Yet here you are recomending that people forge their own route up to Snow Creek Wall, via, some discrete game trail. As if that human activite has no environmental impacts. . The trail is already there. It traverses the slope at a gentle grade and promotes less erosion than the standard trail. Somehow it blends in with the meadows better than your bolts and lycra blend in with the granite. Dude, I'm not promoting anything, just providing information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pope Posted May 7, 2002 Author Share Posted May 7, 2002 quote: Originally posted by CAMAZONIA: ... worse yet he will hit you with a boring 1000 word post on the justifcation of his climbing ethics. Folks were down at pube club saying something like, "Oh yeah, that Pope's drilled a couple of holes, and he needs to disclose this if he's going spray about the evil of bolts." I wasn't there to defend myself, and so you got a chance to see my "confession" on the web. Did it put you to sleep? You're the moron who read it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted May 7, 2002 Share Posted May 7, 2002 You guys all suck especially you rap bolters. Britney Spears climbs better than all of you and has a great ass. Beth Rodden is pudgy faced overrated for looks. Rachel Babkirk is way better. Now that is a good debate! Lynn Hill is hardcore but looks like a dude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son_of_Caveman Posted May 7, 2002 Share Posted May 7, 2002 Britney's overrated. I heard she's had so many boob jobs they finally had to start painting her nipples on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted May 7, 2002 Share Posted May 7, 2002 Britney is way better than Beth Rodden or Lynn Hill! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crackbolter Posted May 7, 2002 Share Posted May 7, 2002 quote: Originally posted by pope: quote:Originally posted by Lambone: So here is a question Mr. "bolts are bad for the environment," What kinda trail is this your talkin about? Is it established? Switchbacks? Or is it just another climber's scar leading from point A to point B in the shortest time possible? Just curious, thanks in advance for the clarification. Firstly, thanks but no thanks for attibuting that quote to me. What I said is, bolts are ugly and alien to the mountain environment, and while their use is acceptable under special circumstances, the proliferation of bolts in the last two decades is evidence that climbing, as defined by modern practices, is just another pussy sport. Sorry, Allison. About the trail: yes it's fast, and it follows a game migration route which, if you didn't know, seems to stay on the contour, and so erosion is minimal. I would say the old climbers root crawl, from where it leaves Snow Creek trail, is about as rutted out as I've seen in the Cascades. Who the hell is this guy? What the fuck is he talking about? Bolts are alien to the mountain environment? Allison is a pussy? Did anyone tell this guy that it probably took at least one ton of dynamite to blow up the canyon so that the icycle road could be built? How about the dams on the Wenatchee? Who gives a shit about a couple of hundred holes in the rock WHEN WE COMPARE IT TO WHAT INDUSTRIALISM HAS DONE TO THIS PLANET! Get Real. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAMAZONIA Posted May 7, 2002 Share Posted May 7, 2002 Originally posted by pope: Did it put you to sleep? You're the moron who read it. Blah! Ba! Blah! BA! Blah! Your not funny just a boring Troll on an ego trip looking to see your rants on the SOS posted in cyber space!!! I suppose now that you and PP are swaping spit you are looking for a new nemesis. You have just been trolled!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pope Posted May 7, 2002 Author Share Posted May 7, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Crackbolter: Who gives a shit about a couple of hundred holes in the rock WHEN WE COMPARE IT TO WHAT INDUSTRIALISM HAS DONE TO THIS PLANET! Get Real. [/QB] Weak analogy, which is analogous to asking, "Who cares what Rober Blake did when we compare his deed to Cuck Manson's?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted May 7, 2002 Share Posted May 7, 2002 I'm not really trying to rag on Pope here..., ok, well sort of. The real point I am making is that while bolts have no direct environmental impact other than aesthetic quality, making new trails all over the place does. Pope justifies the trail because it is a "game migration route," which will be less prone to erosion. Maybe this is true, maybe not. Maybe erosion isn’t the largest issue here, lets look at it another way... One could also call a "game trail" a wildlife corridor. When humans encroach on wildlife corridors, migration patterns may be affected. So you may say big deal…so some dear will move to the other side of the hill. But keep in mind, the ecosystem is a fragile web interrelated factors. Disturbed migration in turn could effect predator/prey interaction, mating cycles, feeding patterns etc., etc. Anyone who used to watch Marty Stauffer’s “Wild America” should be able to list a few other ecological concerns. All I’m saying, is that we should consider this before we go and “blitzkrieg” a new highway up to Snow Creek Wall. I’m not saying that climbers shouldn’t bushwhack…, but we are talking about perhaps the most popular climb in Washington here. That alone makes this area particularly sensitive, and this climbers trail very important to consider. If we as climbers want to be considered stewards of the environment, then we must closely examine the impacts of our own actions, and the effects of those actions on the environment we want to preserve. (ok, sorry this is getting long winded) So here is my gripe with pope (keep in mind, I have never met actually pope), and I realize some may think I’m an “asshole” or “tool” for saying this, but too bad. This is a guy who openly calls sport climbers a plague on our sport/lifestyle/whatever… He calls bolts “alien to the mountain environment,” yet here on this public forum he is offering information, condoning, suggesting, whatever you want to call it…, that we should blaze a new trail (up a wildlife corridor) to Snow Creek Wall because the old one takes too long and is in poor condition. Now you tell me, which is more “alien” to the mountain environment in this case? What I propose is that Pope, and Dwayner, two self proclaimed ethical/traditional/environmentalist climbers, are so caught up with their own resentment towards bolts/sport-climbers that they do not even think to consider the outcomes of their own actions. And yet they continue to slam sport climbers… Does anyone else see the hierocracy here, or am I just being a “tool?” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottP Posted May 7, 2002 Share Posted May 7, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Lambone: (snip a bunch of wasted bandwidth) Does anyone else see the hierocracy here, or am I just being a “tool?” Now there's a bit of a malapropism... hierocracy (n) Government by ecclesiastics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted May 7, 2002 Share Posted May 7, 2002 malapropism n : the unintentional misuse of a word by confusion with one that sounds similar Yup, but I think you know what I meant...you gotta love MS Word. Sorry you think what I wrote is just a bunch of wasted bandwith...I suppose you are right. [ 05-07-2002, 11:20 AM: Message edited by: Lambone ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwayner Posted May 7, 2002 Share Posted May 7, 2002 "Does anyone else see the hierocracy here, or am I just being a “tool?”- Lambone "hierocracy", eh? So you perceive mr. pope and I as priest-rulers? A hierocracy can only exist if it has followers. Perhaps you are one. Time for confession and don't forget to leave a few dollars in the coin-box. Dude: I'm really beginning to think that you crave my attention if not acceptance, because you choose to drag me into your boring rants. "What I propose is that Pope, and Dwayner, two self proclaimed ethical/traditional/environmentalist climbers, are so caught up with their own resentment towards bolts/sport-climbers that they do not even think to consider the outcomes of their own actions." Your pseudo-psychological analysis is a bit of creative fiction. Save the mind-reading for Kreskin and when it's time to fulfill your philosophy requirement, try a coarse in critical thinking or logic. Yes, lamebone, you are a tool. Psychoanalyze that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted May 7, 2002 Share Posted May 7, 2002 Scroll up, pope brought you into this with his first post. And you were the one who ranted my ear off at the bar about the environmental impacts of bolts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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