The Troops got the bastard

[Scott_J]

The US and its allies finally got the coward. I am really surprised that he gave it up without a fight. Saddam's rhetoric was always that he would duke it out to the end. Hell, his boys showed a lot of pluck. Where was his? Oh well, at least he is being held for trial so the Iraq people can see the SOB go to trial and hopefully be tried sentenced on the terms of THEIR law.

[allthumbs]

Sisu, this was posted by an internet buddy of mine, on another website I hang out at -

 

Mission Accomplished

 

It is a great day for the people of Iraq and the citizens of the world in addition to the members and families of our Armed Forces.

 

This event has significance on so many levels.

 

I recently spent 5 months in Iraq and took part in the attack on Baghdad during Operation Iraqi Freedom. It is hard to explain how much of a grip on the country that Saddam had. That makes this capture so incredibly important.

 

When we first crossed the border into Iraq and seized the Rumaliah oil fields, the people gave us mixed reactions to our presence. Most were happy we were there, but a majority reminded us of the trouble we caused when we pulled out after the last war. The Iraqis in the south were very afraid that we wouldn't finish the mission and were afraid that Saddam would come back. With reservations, they tolerated our presence.

 

As we progressed up route 7 through Nasiriyah, As Swamah, and Al Hayy, the Iraqis were a bit more supportive of our presence. In each village that we stopped, we were given orders to take down any murals, posters, or likenesses of Saddam - but we were also ordered to encourage the village elders to do the destruction of those images. In these villages, the locals were happy for us to take down the images, but they were too afraid to do it themselves. The younger Iraqis were deathly afraid of "uncle Saddam" and that he would be back and know that they defaced his image. 35 years of terror and brutality certainly had a hold on the local populace. They were also afraid of informants and Baath party officials in their village collecting information on their activities.

 

Even when we were in Baghdad when the regime fell, the jubilation and rejoicing went full force - but had a small bit of hesitation due to the "possibility" of Saddam returning.

 

Now, that possibility is over!!! We have accomplished our mission. I lost two Marines in the battle for Nasiriyah and while this won't bring them back, it does lend purpose to their actions.

 

Some in our media and our government will still not be satisfied and cling to the weapons of mass destruction issue. They will claim that we still haven't accomplished our mission. I am very disappointed by this view and opinion. I saw the terror and fear in the eyes and hearts of the Iraqis, I saw the mass graves that held tens of thousands of Iraqi citizens that had fallen out of favor with the government, I saw the opulent palaces that sat in the middle of single story mud huts, I saw the results of a regime that raped a country (literally and figuratively). I actually got reprimanded for answering a news reporter who pointedly implied that we failed when we didn't find weapons of mass destruction when I said "We removed the Baath party who terrorized, raped, and killed tens of thousands.... what more of a weapons of mass destruction do you want!"

 

The news reports today have been focusing heavily on the Generals who carried out this mission. They certainly did a great job in bringing this search to an end. However, I will push my opinion that it is the troops on the ground who have been doing all of the hard work... They are the ones who have been sniped and bombed on a daily basis. They are the ones who have been sweating, bleeding, screaming, shooting, and crying every day and night throughout this search. My hat is off to the soldiers of the 4th Infantry Division who dug that cowardly son of a bitch out of his dirty hole!!!!!!

 

God bless all of you this holiday season. God be with the souls of the men and women we lost in this fight. Watch over the men and women who are standing watch tonight and be with their families while they are gone.

 

--In memory of my two fallen brothers: Sergeant Michael Bitz and Corporal Kemaphoom Chanawongse - Semper Fidelis boys we all miss you and love you.

 

Semper Fidelis,

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

[Scott_J]

Trask, who ever your buddy is I salute him and all the troops in the US military.

[allthumbs]

Yeah, me too. I'm sure the Saddam capture will be laughed at and scoffed at by the liberal internet warriors that loiter at this website.

 

Sisu, check this out when you have some time -

 

The Failed Experiment: Gun Control and Public Safety in Canada, Australia, England and Wales

Publication Date: November 2003

Author(s):

Gary Mauser, Professor

Email: \4

The Fraser Institute, Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

 

Executive Summary: Widely televised firearm murders in many countries during the 20th Century have spurred politicians to introduce restrictive gun laws. The politicians then promise that the new restrictions will reduce criminal violence and "create a safer society." It is time to pause and ask if gun laws actually do reduce criminal violence.

 

Gun laws must be demonstrated to cut violent crime or gun control is no more than a hollow promise. What makes gun control so compelling for many is the belief that violent crime is driven by the availability of guns and, more importantly, that criminal violence in general may be reduced by limiting access to firearms.

 

In this study, the author examines crime trends in Commonwealth countries that have recently introduced firearm regulations: i.e., Great Britain, Australia, and Canada. The widely ignored key to evaluating firearm regulations is to examine trends in total violent crime, not just firearms crime. Since firearms are only a small fraction of criminal violence, the public would not be safer if the new law could reduce firearm violence but had no effect on total criminal violence.

 

The United States provides a valuable point of comparison for assessing crime rates because the criminal justice system there differs so drastically from those in Europe and the Commonwealth. Not only are criminal penalties typically more severe in the United States, often much more severe, but also conviction and incarceration rates are usually much higher. Perhaps the most striking difference is that qualified citizens in the United States can carry concealed handguns for self-defence. During the past few decades, more than 25 states in the United States passed laws allowing responsible citizens to carry concealed handguns. In 2003, there are 35 states where citizens can get such a permit.

 

The upshot is that violent crime rates, and homicide rates in particular, have been falling in the United States. The drop in the American crime rate is even more impressive when compared with the rest of the world.

 

 

Major conclusions:

 

-England & Wales: Yet in the 1990s alone, the homicide rate jumped 50 percent, going from 10 per million in 1990 to 15 per million in 2000. While not yet as high as the US, in 2002 gun crime in England and Wales increased by 35 percent. This is the fourth consecutive year that gun crime has increased. Police statistics show that violent crime in general has increased since the late 1980s and since 1996 has been more serious than in the United States.

 

-Australia: the total homicide rate, after having remained basically -flat from 1995 to 2001, has now begun climbing again. While violent crime is decreasing in the United States, it is increasing in Australia. Over the past six years, the overall rate of violent crime in Australia has been on the rise, for example, armed robberies have jumped 166 percent nationwide. The confiscation and destruction of legally owned firearms has cost Australian taxpayers at least $500 million. The cost of the police services bureaucracy, including the costly infrastructure of the gun registration system, has increased by $200 million since 1997.

 

-Canada: Over the past decade, the rate of violent crime in Canada has increased while in the United States the violent crime rate has plummeted. The homicide rate is dropping faster in the US than in Canada. The Canadian experiment with firearm registration is becoming a farce says Mauser. The effort to register all firearms, which was originally claimed to cost only $2 million, has now been estimated by the Auditor General to top $1 billion. The final costs are unknown but, if the costs of enforcement are included, the total could easily reach $3 billion.

 

I love the smell of gunpowder in the morning: it smells like... [sniff] freedom.

 

That, and lower violent crime rates.

 

Read the whole report here: http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/admin...dExperiment.pdf

 

[Ratboy]

Sweet! Hand him over to the Iraqi government and be done with it. Can we get back to going after the people that attacked us now?

[catbirdseat]

I imagine that the US will hang on to Saddam for a while while they interrogate him. In fact, I expect it will be a good long while. As long as there is any useful information they can extract from him there will be no trial and no execution. The Iraqis, on the other hand, will pressure us for an immediate trial. The will want him executed as soon as possible to preclude any possibility in people's minds that he can ever come back into power.

[allthumbs]

Ratboy said:

Can we get back to going after the people that attacked us now?

let the naysaying begin, starting with this ignorant comment

[scrambler]

Good job.

 

Chump captured!

 

Accomplished: Baathist government toppled, Saddam captured w/out resistance, sons killed in gun battle, no weapons of mass destruction discovered

 

Efforts continue to root out Baathist elements:

U.S. General Sees More Attacks Despite Capture

 

 

Edited December 14, 2003 by scrambler

[catbirdseat]

I expect the attacks to tail off. I also expect the Iraqis to take a more active role in putting down the resistance because a great deal of fear will have been removed.

[allthumbs]

I agree - hopefully, the start of our withdrawl.

[lancegranite]

 

"Saddam found behind the 7-11 on the corner of 15th and main, The aged dictator was found in possession of

half a bottle of blackberry scnapps, one very soiled copy of the Julia Roberts film,"Pretty Woman", 750,000 dollars in cash and Fidel Castro's home phone number...more details as the situation develops"

[EWolfe]

Edited December 14, 2003 by MisterE

[glacierdog]

Tonight, we celebrate!

[marylou]

There is a strangely "Wag the Dog" element to this story.

 

I suspect that we are not getting the whole story here. It's a little too perfect that the US military would find this guy hiding out in a hole, looking like a bum, and not putting up a fight.

 

I'm sure I'm going to get flamed to pieces for my remarks, but something just is not right.

[catbirdseat]

Marylou, frequently truth is stranger than fiction. The stress of being a fugitive is such that frequently capture brings relief.

[allthumbs]

ML - STFU

[cracked]

Time will tell. Until then, we can have another Trask vs Allison cliche.

[marylou]

 

I suppose you're going to say that skepticism is unpatriotic now.

 

Oh wait, never mind.

[cracked]

What's your genius theory of what happened? They found a blow-up Saddam rather than the real thing? It is logical that he wouldn't come out of a hole surrounded by heavily armed soldier and try to fight.

 

Hello? Logic?

 

Oh, wait....

[allthumbs]

Why don't we all take 24 hours to just bask in the glow of his capture before denouncing the whole affair as a bullshit political move and spewing about the evil U.S. government. I figured it'd be you starting some shit marylou, as that seems to be your M.O. Fuck I hate you and every word that comes out of your cake hole.

 

Go cry to Jon now, boohoo, trask is being mean to me. I'm sure you can manage to get me banned.

[Scott_J]

trask said:

Why don't we all take 24 hours to just bask in the glow of his capture before denouncing the whole affair as a bullshit political move and spewing about the evil U.S. government. I figured it'd be you starting some shit marylou, as that seems to be your M.O. Fuck I hate you and every word that comes out of your cake hole.

 

Go cry to Jon now, boohoo, trask is being mean to me. I'm sure you can manage to get me banned.

 

Trask, I could not have stated it any better. I read what ML=Allison wrote and decided it was the smell that comes from an outhouse. I guess Mary Lou should spell it Mary Loo.

[Mtguide]

sisu_suomi said:

The US and its allies finally got the coward. I am really surprised that he gave it up without a fight. Saddam's rhetoric was always that he would duke it out to the end. Hell, his boys showed a lot of pluck. Where was his? Oh well, at least he is being held for trial so the Iraq people can see the SOB go to trial and hopefully be tried sentenced on the terms of THEIR law.

 

ASSHOLE OF SPADES TRUMPED

 

There was a comment on Saddam's cowardice in the face of capture by the current Head of the Iraqi Delegation that "all tyrants are cowards",which is for the most part true from history.Imagine being in a position of being competely unable to trust anyone.After 24 years of living like that,even before the fall of his regime,he had to be a pretty unstable guy,to say the very least.

There's been a lot of commentary on just what this will actually mean for the continued effort to bring the country and region into equilibrium.The concensus seems to be,including the best military opinion,that there will no doubt be some continued violence by die-hard fedayeen and other insurgents.But it's very significant in terms of eliminating an emotional and Baathist party rationale and rallying point for any hopes of the old regime somehow continuing a guerilla war of attrition,to eventually claw their way back to power,such as what eventually drove the Russians out of Afghanistan.(And of course that happened in combination with overwhelming financial problems that made the Russians unable to continue).There was an excellent program on the History Channel last week which documented the more than 10 year process of restoring Germany to some semblance of order and stability after WWII,and compared that to the present situation in Iraq.The very exact same problems occurred in post-Nazi Germany as those now taking place in Iraq,but on a much more widespread and more deeply rooted scale.Insurgency and the hiding of Nazi regime members,bombings and sabotage were largely supported by the general populace,and over the period from VE day to 1951,some 2700 American soldiers were killed due to ambushes,suicide bombings,and other sabotage operations.That's over 500 servicemen a year.It was not until almost 10 years later that the Germans were allowed to form their own representational government by the UN,and it's suspected that there are still a large number of former Nazi party members,military officers and operatives who simply vanished into the general populace and whose secrets were never revealed by family or friends.To this point,as difficult as it has been,things are actually proceeding on a much faster time scale in Iraq,although no one wants to make any projections on how long the US will be there,just yet.

Finally,in regards to what Trask's buddy in the military said about the troops on the ground and the gritty foot-by-foot,day-by-day price they have paid to get things to this point,it was Dan Rather who made the point,not once, but 4 or 5 times in his live program this morning,that it has been ordinary soldiers,"boots on the ground" , who have carried out all these search and capture missions of the characters on the Deck of Cards,and it was just such a team who captured Saddam last night.I am only too happy that he didn't harm anyone else during his capture,and although there will probably be some discussion on just where and how he should be tried(there are a number of other countries who claim injury from Saddam's actions,and there will almost certainly be an effort to see that he's tried in an international court)I absolutely agree that he should have to answer to his own people on their own ground.And in spite of my disagreements with various aspects of the Bush administration's policies on not only the way this war was propogated,but many other domestic and international issues as well,this is one liberal who is more than happy to give credit where credit is due,to commend and honor the terrible sacrifices made by those in the military,and their families,and to celebrate the final demise of yet another tyrant.Now on to Osama!and may Iraq be free forever.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

"Heaven's net casts wide; though its' meshes are coarse,nothing slips through..."

-Lao Tzu,Tao te Ching

658 B.C.

Edited December 14, 2003 by Mtguide

[catbirdseat]

Yes, it's time to feel good, if only for a day. We deserve a victory today. We'll go back to worrying tomorrow.

 

I'll be off to my office Holiday party and I intend to knock back a few cold ones and celebrate everything there is to be thankful for- life, health, a job, and the capture of Saddam Hussein.

[allthumbs]

FuckinA, Merry Christmas everybody (almost), and may our troops come home soon.

[griz]

marylou said:

There is a strangely "Wag the Dog" element to this story.

 

I suspect that we are not getting the whole story here. It's a little too perfect that the US military would find this guy hiding out in a hole, looking like a bum, and not putting up a fight.

 

I'm sure I'm going to get flamed to pieces for my remarks, but something just is not right.

 

Marylou, it doesn't surprise me a bit how they found him and that he gave in w/o a fight. He's a frickin' coward and couldn't trust anyone because he was so hated by most in the country. Why else would a person kill off any person that even slightly disagreed w/ him? Cuz he's afraid of them.