stinkyclimber Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 This may have already been posted before, so if so, I apologize. Check out the MPEG video (4MB or so) that you can download from this link, to make you think really carefully about casually calling in a high-angle rescue. I still feel a little sick thinking about the image. "Just a quick warning this is not a Video for the sensitive." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b-rock Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 this was posted before, and the original poster was properly flamed. of course accidents happen, no 'lessons learned' in the video, why post it? it takes a sick mind to want to watch something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary_Yngve Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 stinkyclimber said: This may have already been posted before, so if so, I apologize. Check out the MPEG video (4MB or so) that you can download from this link, to make you think really carefully about casually calling in a high-angle rescue. I still feel a little sick thinking about the image. "Just a quick warning this is not a Video for the sensitive." egad, what happened there? anyone know spanish? looks like the patient and attendant got dropped? (operator error, anchor blew, rope chopped, etc.?) isn't it standard rescue protocol for there to be a main line and a belay line, with separate anchors for each? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinkyclimber Posted November 20, 2003 Author Share Posted November 20, 2003 b-rock said: this was posted before, and the original poster was properly flamed. of course accidents happen, no 'lessons learned' in the video, why post it? it takes a sick mind to want to watch something like that. Sorry for the double post then. I attempted to draw no lessons from it. It just helped remind me of the risks inherent in our sport. Definately not a sick fascination...I only ever want to see that once, in a video or real life. But, again, if it makes me continue to be as aware of all the potential risks as possible, then I am glad. Feel free to flame though. That seems to be the MO around here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracked Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 I don't speak Spanish, but is it me, or does it sound like the news guy says that both survived? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracked Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 "los dos sobre vivien". I think they survived. And he also says something about a helicoper, which would explain why they weren't being belayed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 I believe that was a training excersize. Watching it once was enough for me...never again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinker Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 from what I recall, it was a practice rescue using a helicopter with a steel cable. the cable got pinched in a crack and snapped. both survived. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobo Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 Gary_Yngve said: ...isn't it standard rescue protocol for there to be a main line and a belay line, with separate anchors for each? Yes, in the case of a high- or low-angle raise or lower. But from the haul set-up that I saw in the video, it appears to me to be a helo op. In a helo op, there would be a tag line attached to the litter to prevent spinning (if there was a litter). Since there was no litter, there would be no tag line. You would be at the complete mercy of the attendant and the jungle penetrator. It appears that either the attachment link failed at the subject/attendant, or the short haul line failed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary_Yngve Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 sobo said: Gary_Yngve said: ...isn't it standard rescue protocol for there to be a main line and a belay line, with separate anchors for each? Yes, in the case of a high- or low-angle raise or lower. But from the haul set-up that I saw in the video, it appears to me to be a helo op. In a helo op, there would be a tag line attached to the litter to prevent spinning (if there was a litter). Since there was no litter, there would be no tag line. You would be at the complete mercy of the attendant and the jungle penetrator. It appears that either the attachment link failed at the subject/attendant, or the short haul line failed. ok, that makes sense. so ideally the rescuers raise/lower the subject to a safer spot for pickup... but if that's not possible... I remember hearing that in NCascadeMtn (is that the right guy)'s rescue on Chimney Rock, he didn't have an attendant when they flew him off and down to a safer spot. I guess that way it's one less risk for the rescuer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobo Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 Gary_Yngve said: ...so ideally the rescuers raise/lower the subject to a safer spot for pickup... but if that's not possible... Yes, ideally, it is best to get the subject to a safer area as quickly and as safely as possible so more definitive aid can be rendered. If that is not possible, aid is rendered as best as can be done at the scene, and extraction becomes a more lengthy proposition. But presumably the subject has been stabilized by then. Gary_Yngve said: I remember hearing that in NCascadeMtn (is that the right guy)'s rescue on Chimney Rock, he didn't have an attendant when they flew him off and down to a safer spot. I guess that way it's one less risk for the rescuer. Probably had more to do with the short-haul equipment on the helo, the elevation of the operation, and the operating characteristics of the helo itself than anything to do with less risk to the rescuer. Typically, and almost without exception (except for the aforementioned exceptions), rescue protocol requires that an attendant ride with the subject. And yes, under the right conditions, a jungle penetrator has room for two. I did a search for all of ncascademtn's posts, and the thread titles didn't give me any clue about his rescue, so I couldn't read his account. Maybe it was someone else, or maybe someone else on the trip wrote up the TR that contained the rescue description. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobo Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 A little more work found this. Tread tramp was the subject. Can't make any conclusions from the info proffered, other than it appears that only the helo crew showed up, and no ground personnel. In this case, it may have been more of a "less risk to rescuer" case, as the attendant on the t-bar would have to ask himself, "You want me to hang on the end of this line as the rotor downwash bashes me against the side of this cliff, is that right? OK, no problemo." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forrest_m Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 from www.desnivel.es Two firemen from the Catalan regional fire brigade ... fell from the helicopter with which they were performing a rescue excercise when the crew were forced to cut the cable as the aircraft was losing power. The two victims are recovering. The cause was a sudden gust of wind, just at the moment when they were starting the rescue manouvres, which could have led to the helicopter crashing into the mountainside, which would have trapped the rest of the practice team who were below at the time. The rescuer and mock victim had just been hoisted a couple of metres above the rescue site - the Gendarme de Tuc de Crabes (Aran Valley) when the cable-cutter had to be used to avoid a greater tragedy. But, as the rescue team were already off bealy at the wall, a fact which the helicopter crew were unaware of, they continued to fall, after the initial impact, for a hundred metres down the mountain." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinker Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 for what it's worth the first 6 posts of this link at rec.climbing discuss it a bit (7/2001) The pertinent info cited there is: "A Spanish (IIRC) SAR group is practicing helicopter pick ups, and the cable breaks/is disconnected, and the rescuer and "victim" both drop onto the cliff, and the tumble down - really horrifying to watch. Amazingly, they both lived. It's not directly related to the type of self -rescue practice we're talking about, but serves as a reminder that practicing rescue scenarios has its own hazards." and " http://dedicated.goofball.com/goofball/uncensored/media/rockclimb.mpeg The cable was cut by the chopper crew, both survived the fall. That's a very dangerous button, that one..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinker Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 oh...and this from rec.climbing (3/2000) "I had a spanish-speaking person give me a translation: This was a PRACTICE rescue mission gone awry! They fell 70 metres, and believe it or not, both lived with massive injuries. That's basically it in a nutshell. And yeah - totally disturbing to watch..... Michael" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottP Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 stinkyclimber said: b-rock said: this was posted before, and the original poster was properly flamed. of course accidents happen, no 'lessons learned' in the video, why post it? it takes a sick mind to want to watch something like that. Sorry for the double post then. I attempted to draw no lessons from it. It just helped remind me of the risks inherent in our sport. Definately not a sick fascination...I only ever want to see that once, in a video or real life. But, again, if it makes me continue to be as aware of all the potential risks as possible, then I am glad. Feel free to flame though. That seems to be the MO around here... The "before" post b-rock mentions.. Although the clip is quite graphic and sickening, I am with stinky in thinking that keeping in mind the possible consequences of what I do can only keep my head more in the game and therefore keep me safer. When I was in high school, I came upon the result of a friend of mine who had minutes before collided head on with a car while riding his Kawasaki 500 at over 100 mph. It forever changed how I rode motorcycles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olyclimber Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 sick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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