Slide vs Digital projectors

[David_Parker]

Last night I noticed a HUGE difference in the quality of images displayed. On the computer, my images were about 10 times better than on the screen, while the slides looked great on the screen. This makes me re-think using digital. Or was that just a cheap projector?

 

Jon, great show and excellent job organizing. This is not a criticism of your efforts.

[forrest_m]

david - digital projectors do exist that have similar image quality to a slide projector, but they cost tens of thousands of dollars. the relatively inexpensive projector we had last night(not that inexpensive - i think similar models sell for around $800 - $1000, plus you need a laptop to run them) is mostly designed for making powerpoint presentations, "our top three sales objectives for this quarter are..."

 

while quality is improving, i think it will be several more years before dig. projectors in the regular consumer market can compete with slides for image quality.

[boatskiclimbsail]

There are a lot of venues that already have the $10-20k projectors installed, check out any local college theaters or lecture halls. They are usually cool with doing outdoor presentations, as it gives the students something to attend. They might even provide some foodservice

[JayB]

Can they convert digital images to slides at those online photo sites like ofoto.com? Converting digital pics to slides might be the way to go for presentations if you want to preserve image quality.

[David_Parker]

JayB said:

Can they convert digital images to slides at those online photo sites like ofoto.com? Converting digital pics to slides might be the way to go for presentations if you want to preserve image quality.

 

I'm guessing that would be expensive. Much easier the other way, slides to digital images, but that means you carry a slide camera, not a digital camera. I'm trying to figure out how to keep using my digital camera and be able to do quality presentations. Those images last night were so washed out. I'm kinda a perfectionist I guess.

[boatskiclimbsail]

A relatively inexpensive option would be to get prints of the digital pics you want to show, and get an optical front projector (kind of like an overhead projector). Prints are a lot cheaper to make than slides, and a "slideshow" caliber projector shouldnt run more than a few hundred dollars. There are usually some on eBay if you hunt for them.

[Gary_Yngve]

David_Parker said:

JayB said:

Can they convert digital images to slides at those online photo sites like ofoto.com? Converting digital pics to slides might be the way to go for presentations if you want to preserve image quality.

 

I'm guessing that would be expensive. Much easier the other way, slides to digital images, but that means you carry a slide camera, not a digital camera. I'm trying to figure out how to keep using my digital camera and be able to do quality presentations. Those images last night were so washed out. I'm kinda a perfectionist I guess.

 

Slides vs digital:

 

Slides have a much larger range of dark to light than digital. Imagine a scene with both highlights and shadows. Slides can capture the details in both, whereas a digital image may make the highlights white and the shadows black, losing all detail. Another way to put it is that digital slides are like modern rock music, where most everything is the same volume, while slides are like classical music, having a much larger dynamic range.

 

High dynamic range is a hot topic in research now, so in a few years, expect cameras with greater bits of range, and expect HDR displays as well.

 

Digital projectors:

 

One big issue is how bright the bulb is. Generally, the brighter the better, and the pricier.

 

Another issue is that projectors have controls for brightness and contrast, maybe even gamma (if not gamma, then your video card will likely have that). So if all the images are consistently off, you can tweak these settings to make the images look better.

[scott_harpell]

agreed... slides will always be better. same as vinly vs. digital... you will not be able to capture the same colors etc...

[forrest_m]

David_Parker said:

JayB said:

Can they convert digital images to slides at those online photo sites like ofoto.com? Converting digital pics to slides might be the way to go for presentations if you want to preserve image quality.

 

I'm guessing that would be expensive.

 

creating slides from large digital files can be done at most of the professional-type photo places (I like Ivey, some people prefer prolab, there are others). the quality depends on the quality of your original digital image, but can be quite good. runs about $10 per slide, with price breaks for quantity down to around $8. adds up quick if you are trying to do a lot.

[cj001f]

Digital projectors have fairly low contrast ratios - and with existing technologies this is unlikely to change for home use (once you break out the Class IV sources......) Don't expect miracles anytime soon.

[jon]

The projectors just aren't up to par right now with slides. You images also look better on a monitor because the light is from behind instead of being reflected off a screen.

 

Next time we do this I will try to get the projector from my work, but I think one of the problems was that I hadn't fiddled with the settings like the brightness and contrast. We have used it for doing presentations looking at histology data where the color and sharpness are crucial and after fiddling around you can usually get it looking presentable.

[Gary_Yngve]

boatskiclimbsail said:

There are a lot of venues that already have the $10-20k projectors installed, check out any local college theaters or lecture halls. They are usually cool with doing outdoor presentations, as it gives the students something to attend. They might even provide some foodservice

 

Unfortunately it doesn't work that way at UW. They charge you to use the rooms, and they don't allow non-university folk without first having paperwork signed off by the dean. Oh yeah... and if you have food, you have to pay surcharges... and get a food permit if you are not going through UW Catering...

 

But in the future, if you do want a really good digital projector for showing images, I can bring one of our pricy ones from the lab.

[boatskiclimbsail]

Wow! Anytime we wanted to use one of the rooms, or had someone come to the outing club wanting to do a pres, they were welcomed with open arms and coffee. Must me that northern NY hospitality...

 

We used to watch DVDs in the 300 seat lecture hall every now and then

[mvs]

It looked to me like the digital projector last night could only display 8 bit color, so millions of colors were getting dithered to 256 colors. You really saw it in a picture of sky, with such a gradual fade from dark blue to white -> that appeared as three bands!

 

Still, I was impressed by the brightness and am going to look into these more...

 

[ketch]

DP, You are so right, there is a huge difference in digital verses slide. I often use both in my presentations. In the low end you can get better quicker with slide. Improvements such as brighter light modules and lower f-stop lens are easy. In the digital world light output is expensive quick. The real bummer is that contrast is also expensive. Most lower end projectors can't project true black and white but instead it's grey and white. If you look around shop contrast ratio and ANSI Lumens to start, some units are native xga some vga that varies too. It doesn't do justice to your digital to arrange it xga and then present it vga. There are some pretty good units available. I do everything from theatre movies to private party slide shows.

 

PM me if you want to chat details. Also I may be able to help in the next show. You should have great stuff to show what sounds to have been an oustanding show.

[marylou]

There are a few things you can do to get the laptop to push the best possible image to the LCD, but beyond that, there is not a lot to be said for the quality of the home LCDs.

 

I wouldn't expect that to change anytime soon.

 

If next time there is a high quality LCD on hand, I'll try to make it, there are a few settings adjustments to make the image look the best it can. It's not rocket science, but there are a few things to make it look purty.

[cj001f]

marylou said:

There are a few things you can do to get the laptop to push the best possible image to the LCD, but beyond that, there is not a lot to be said for the quality of the home LCDs.

The smaller portable systems are generally MEMS. Many of the color issues are a source (light bulb) issue. The brighter the bulb the more expensive it gets to replace - especially when you get to the really nice pro systems that have class IV lasers.

 

As for colors - many of the projectors have the capability of lots of colors (24 bit for most of the Infocus models). Given the low illumination levels I'd guess it to be more of an eye response/color differentiation issue.

[lI1|1!]

Add the venerable slide projector to the list of vanishing 20th century artifacts.

 

Kodak will cease production of its slide projectors and accessories in June 2004, according to a mid-July email sent to institutional users by Kodak account manager Glenn Price. The "pre-disclosure" was intended to give government agencies, (and by extension, arts institutions, and schools and universities) plenty of time to prepare – either by accelerating their slide-scanning programs, or by stocking up on projectors and parts while they are still available.

 

but still i will never forget film. those luxurious liquid colors, the sensitivity, the warmth. i'll tell my pixilated grandchildren about it and they won't know what i'm talking about.

[mattp]

Chris Christiansen used a digital projector for his Mount Vernon slide show last night, and he had much better contrast than we hat at Schultzy's. I didn't understand the whole story, but he needs to sell the projector. If somebody is interested, it might be worth checking out.

[David_Parker]

lI1|1! said:

Add the venerable slide projector to the list of vanishing 20th century artifacts.

 

Kodak will cease production of its slide projectors and accessories in June 2004, according to a mid-July email sent to institutional users by Kodak account manager Glenn Price. The "pre-disclosure" was intended to give government agencies, (and by extension, arts institutions, and schools and universities) plenty of time to prepare – either by accelerating their slide-scanning programs, or by stocking up on projectors and parts while they are still available.

 

but still i will never forget film. those luxurious liquid colors, the sensitivity, the warmth. i'll tell my pixilated grandchildren about it and they won't know what i'm talking about.

 

Wow, I just sold an extra kodak slide projector for $35 albeit it needs service! Shouda held onto it for another year or 2. They're gonna stop making the classic VW bug too!