carolyn Posted October 29, 2001 Share Posted October 29, 2001 First all, let me thank everyone out there for putting up with my numerous questions. especially when most of them might seem so basic. Let me throw out another one to all of you if you dont mind. Before my visit to the NW last month most of the rock climbing I did involved someone setting up a toprope for me and then climbing. While on my trip I had the opportunity to climb in a few different places where people showed me how to set anchors, place gear, etc. Ive struggled with finding a regular partner here in Mpls. For some odd reason, learning all aspects of climbing has become a priority for me these days (I know, kind of wierd, huh? ). I have yet to meet anyone out here with the same goals. Schedules often conflict as well. Im sick of waiting for others to have the time to go out or teach me what I need to know, So I have taken it apon myself to self teach Now, I KNOW I cant teach myself everything. But I sure can get a good start. Ive met some great people out at the crags who have given me some good suggestions on things to practice. I also have a wonderfully BUSY mentor who has given me bits of his rack. Here are some things I have been doing...*finding cracks near the ground to practice placements.*after making placements, setting up a hanging belay, equalizing the cordelette, hanging on it and bouncing around a bit to see how well they hold.*hanging on each piece individually.*hanging a sling from a piece and stepping on the sling so I can reach up and put in another placement and hang. ( I have to admit, by the time I figured this one out today I was running out of time and opted not to hang from the second placement..got a bit of the jitters, especially after a slight spill I took right before that )*set up a hanging belay and rapp down a very SHORT ledge*been reading long's book on anchors and reviewing things in the freedom of the hills book. So, Im wondering what others have done to help teach themselves and give them confidence when they cant find a partner to climb with? AND...what have you done that you WOULDNT suggest other people do (mistakes you have made which could have cost you dearly)? I appreciate any suggestions. carolyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pope Posted October 29, 2001 Share Posted October 29, 2001 Your instructional strategy is missing one key ingredient: evaluation. You can certainly learn both mechanical and conceptual ideas from reading manuals, and you can fart around at the base of a cliff, trying this and that, and such activity is valuable. But when learning to place gear and build anchors, the smart thing to do is find/hire somebody who can evaluate your work and progress, who can critique your current understanding and suggest ways to develop safe practices. Meeting this person through happenstance will be difficult, since your ability to recognize competence (vs. some guy with a mountain rescue patch on his parka) might not be as keen as you think. Save a few hundred bucks and hire a guide. It's not like golf or skiing where bad habbits will screw up your game. Bad habbits have serious consequences here. But just as in golf and skiing, you sometimes need qualified, outside review before you can recognize your bad habbits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolyn Posted October 29, 2001 Author Share Posted October 29, 2001 pope...and all... I do understand how important evaluation is. And I CAN get it. I do have friends who have been climbing anywhere between a couple years to over a dozen years. I just cant get them out as much as I would like to be out. So while they are working, travelling, etc and I want to be out learning, what are some SAFE ways I can continue to teach myself? pope, thank you for taking the time to respond and pointing out a seriously important aspect of learning. Maybe one thing I CAN do is when I know someone heading out to climb in an area which I think is above my head, instead of staying closer to home I could head out with them and just stay on the ground practicing and letting them evaluate in between their climbs.. I know I have already missed an opportunity like this at least twice in the past month. Time for work... have a good one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texplorer Posted October 29, 2001 Share Posted October 29, 2001 Carolyn, There are many ways to becoming a competant trad leader. I started much as you have and followed a few people up some more moderate routes. I thought that it didn't look too tough so I started leading on my own. Just getting out there and doing it is great but I have definetly done some things incorrectly and put myself in needless danger a few times. The benefit of going with an experienced person is that you can hopefully avoid some of those mistakes before they get you into trouble. Ultimately I enjoy trad because of the diversity of climbs it opens up from face moves to cracks to offwidths and an by placing your own protection. These things make it more fun for me but they also mean mastery of a plethora of new skills. Take the grades slow and really get used to placing pro on climbs that allow you an easy stance. Ultimately I know you will succeed because of your fervor to learn. Remember it takes most people more than a few trips to the crags to become a good trad leader. good luck and climb on- Carpe Diem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted October 29, 2001 Share Posted October 29, 2001 Carolyn, Thats a good question! Here is a long winded acount of what I did.... I learned the basics of rock climbing while living in the burbs of Chicago. I didn't have any partners either. So I read lots of books and messed around with stuff. (burn freedom of the hills) One day while out skateboarding I found a random industrial park a mile or so down the steet from my house. I checked it out, looking for something to railslide, but what I found were several large buildings covered in rock siding. Each building had different types of rock in varying degrees of quality. So I came back with my rack and started bouldering around placing peices where ever I could. Then I'd go back and pull 'em all out.(one night I had to jump from 20ft and run from the cops!) I did this everyday after school for a couple of years. When I had the chance to get up to Devils Lake in Wi I'd always build the TR anchors, and try placing gear while on top-rope. Then I'd have more experienced partners check them out. I started leading stuff that I new I wouldn't fall off of, got really scared a few times and all that. And so on and so forth.... Here are a few min tips I'd give. Follow, follow, follow. The best way to learn about placing gear is to take it out. But don't just rip it out blindly, look at it carefully and evaluate how it went in BEFORE you take it out. Once you start on the sharp end, lead easy stuff that you know protects well, and place alot of peices...if you have 'em. Also, try to clean your own gear when possible, it will give you a good feel for what's good and what's not so good. Third, find a good course and take it! Think of it as cheap life insurance. Set up an anchor class at the local rock gym with the most experienced staff member. What ever you can find...I took my first oficial class after 10 years of climbing (on self resuce). I was amazed by how much I din't know about technical systems and such, and I felt very lucky that I've never needed that knowledge before (knock on wood). Take care, have fun, and be safe! [ 10-29-2001: Message edited by: lambone ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny Posted October 29, 2001 Share Posted October 29, 2001 Go climbing Carolyn!!! If someone you know is going cragging for the day, no matter what level they are working at, GO WITH!! There is no easier way to becoming proficient at climbing, be it bolts or gear, than to just do it or at the very least be around it. You sound sharp enough to avoid stringing yourself out with someone who is trying something over their head. That being said, have confidance in your skills, be they book or field learned and push yourself wherever you feel comfortable. Keyword: Comfortable. Is there is a cool, low fifth class route nearby? Something you feel confidant climbing, even if you have to lead it all yourself? Sometimes those routes are way more fun than their grade might indicate and worthy of doing in their own right. Ask any experienced northwest alpine climber how much fun a long, perhaps exposed, yet "only" 5.3 route that is 85% 4th class is. Find a friend who is at least athletic if you cannot find another experienced climber and GO CLIMBING!!! Hit a local crag and do all the easy routes. Just get on the rock!! The Mountineers and their ideals are overrated as a learning tool. Conservatism can only get you so far. I may catch no end of hell for this but learning is all about performing the unfamiliar, under as much control as can be mustered, mind you, and succeeding. All the climbing pioneers we read about today became such by being pioneers; extending themselves and trying new things. We now have the benefit of detailed guidebooks, both routfinding and technical, but the bottom line is adventure. With a big fat capital A!! You have learned some of the knots, learned some of the methods, don't be shy about using them. They work. What you have learned is solid and it is not as complicated and life threatening as some would make you believe. As long as they are executed with both CONFIDANCE and CAUTION Sorry if I have preached but climbing is so much damn fun that caution must be put in its proper place. It MUST exist, but it MUST not interfere to the point of negating the Prime Directive: Scare the shit out of yourself during your quest for personal improvement. Overcoming your fears is what this is all about!!! Cool part about climbing is that you get your rocks off while touching the Earth in a very personal, basic way. Is there anything better? OK enough Yada Yada Yada for the time being. You live in Wisconson? Well that makes you the closest climber I currently know of as I now live in Nort Carolina. Coming this way anytime soon?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_Anderson Posted October 29, 2001 Share Posted October 29, 2001 Yeah, what Johnny said. And never turn down any offer to go out, especially from someone more experienced. You're probably overestimating the difficulty being ablt to get on a route at an area that is "over your head." It's a very rare cliff/climbing area that won't have something that you can at least toprope at almost any level. Even if the person you are going with is so much stronger than you that you can't dream of getting on the climbs that s/he is interested in, that just means that setting up a top rope for you on a climb will be that much less effort for them (Certainly a fair trade for the time you'll spend belaying that person). Even the super hard areas often have climbs with easy climbing low on the pitches before the harder climbing up front. If the crux is far harder than what you can climb, just call the start of the crux the end of your short climb. Plus, getting on climbs that seem way to hard can be a mind expanding experience if you just let whatever happens happen. It's how you get strong. Furthermoe, look everywhere for climbing partners: climbing gyms, local gear store bulletin boards, on line, at climber slide shows, wherever. If you're that excited to get out, you should always be to find someone else who is interested. Be outgoing about it. I was afraid to ask people if they wanted to climb with me when I first started, thinking that they wouold think that it would be a drag for them to climb with a newby and that I would not have anything to add. These days, I recognize that the only two necessary qualities in a partner are desire and an ability to belay. Belaying can be easily taught and enthusiasm is the source of just about desire else. If you have both of those, you should just ask everyone you meet if they want to head out. If they don't, they can say no - no loss to you. ` Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrible_ted Posted October 29, 2001 Share Posted October 29, 2001 Hi Carolyn: I wouldn't worry too much about tuning your climbing experience to match some other bozo's idea of good time. The more you do, the more you'll learn about what you like and don't like. Climbing with a variety of people will be invaluable, especially if you keep your eye's peeled for different approaches to the same technique/problem. I don't see any other solution for you, unless you have a lot of frequent flier miles built up. Here's number one with a bullet. Learn how to tie-off and get out of a system safely. Spend some of your book/practice time covering "rescue" or emergency situations. Most of these rigging systems are extensions of basic principles: learning them will hammer home the essentials of rope handling and will serve you well in the off chance... I mean, you might think you picked an experienced partner... -t Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted October 30, 2001 Share Posted October 30, 2001 Whenever I hear of "self teaching" or practicing I think of the banana scene from Fast Times at Ridgemont High. But seriously about the only other things i can suggest are hauling your pack up to the balcony with a z-pulley, and practicing coiling the rope. you can save a lot of time between climbs if you are a fast coiler, and even more if you can just throw the coil down and belay from it without having to flake-out first. [ 10-30-2001: Message edited by: Dru ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Posted October 31, 2001 Share Posted October 31, 2001 "I learned the basics of rock climbing while living in the burbs of Chicago. I didn't have any partners either. So I read lots of books and messed around with stuff. (burn freedom of the hills)" Lambone: No disrespect for a skateboarder turned buildingeer, but, Burn Freedom of the Hills? Come on Man! Not to put you on the spot either, but, what other single source is a more complete text for a newbie to learn how to climb safley? Any suggestions would be appreciated by this newbie. I like devouring climbing manuals. [ 10-31-2001: Message edited by: Bronco ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted October 31, 2001 Share Posted October 31, 2001 I knew I'd get called out on that one, thanks Bronco! The problem with Freedom of the Hills is that it covers a too little of too many things. Know what I mean? It hits almost every topic, but not necesarily very well. The information in it is oversimplified and out dated. How much different is FoTH I from FoTH V? Not much.... new, modern equipment alone makes it obsolete. Don't get me wrong, it has a lot of great stuff in it, and its a good start. But it is deffinatley not the end all be all instructional book that people make it out to be. Some books that I'd rather spend my money on: 1. Mark Twights Extreme Alpinism - info on the real deal, this is how most climbers you see in AAJ do it 2.John Longs Anchors and More Anchors- gotta love Long 3.The Illustrated Guide to Glacier Travel(Crevase Rescue ??)- very detailed, cool drawings 4. Self rescue- a bit confusing, but if you've read it your one step ahead of someone who hasn't These books are detailed and specific. Go to Freedom of the Hills to get a general overview, but then read these books to get some information that is applicable in the real world. Of course, there is no substitute for hands on experience. Remember, these are only my opinions, and I am a nobody who likes many types of climbing, but exells at none. [ 10-31-2001: Message edited by: lambone ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolyn Posted October 31, 2001 Author Share Posted October 31, 2001 Thanks everyone. Lots of "motivating" answers. I imagine it will be easier to find more people to climb with once the season picks up again in the spring. I think we will have at least one more week, if not two left before the snow hits us full force over here. In the meantime, Ive got a GREAT person to climb with on the ice and will definately take advantage of being out there everyday I can (with my new boots ). We have a good network of ice climbers in the area, which I didnt feel confident taking advantage of last year (it was my first season on ice). For sure this season I will participate more in the ice community. In regards to Freedom of the Hills. Its been a good reference. I tend to be one of those folks who has to TRY something in order to learn. THEN, I can use the book to refer back to as a refresher and have it make all the sense in the world. I picked up the Twight book last winter, not really even knowing who he was. I liked the pics and the stories were kewl. Ive read it. But now that I have a better understanding of different aspects of climbing, maybe I should read it again. btw...looks like I might get to be the audio visual tech for his presentation next weekend! YEEEEKS! Enjoy the full moon tonight! [ 10-31-2001: Message edited by: carolyn ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted October 31, 2001 Share Posted October 31, 2001 quote: Originally posted by Dru: if you know how to aid climb you can probably figure out how to self rescue. Ummm...I'm not makin that conection. Could you explain that a bit more? What does standing in aiders placing pieces have in common with rigging rescue systems?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted October 31, 2001 Share Posted October 31, 2001 nothing to do with standing in aiders but everything to do with hauling and lowering pigs! so i guess it should be 'if you know how to haul you will know how to self rescue'. i could never remember how to set up a z-pulley for glacier travel until i started aiding. then it was easy. aid climbing also taught me how to pass knots when rapping or lowering, before that the only time i had been able to pass knots was 24 hours after eating a steak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted October 31, 2001 Share Posted October 31, 2001 Yeah, you right dawg... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 right on lambone. I think I have #1 memorized, I have read #2 and #3 but, # 4, eh, I'm in denial, kind of like - if I don't know self rescue I won't need it. Guess I better get with the program Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 if you know how to aid climb you can probably figure out how to self rescue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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