Rodchester

I don't doubt that, that is is not the question. The question is how to fund them...historically the legislature has funded these services and agencies through the general fund, because it is preserving the resource for the good of all., not just those that use it. The pay to play mentality/approach send lots of funds to certain high use areas, while the less used areas suffer. I am no socialist, but this is no way to fund a park system and preserve it at the same time. The less used and travelled parks are suffering.

A CLASSIC EXAMPLE!!! You are correct Erik.

Yeah, and Eyman is reason for the Iraq situation too.... Get over it....

I have had a whisper lite and found it to be overall a good stove. One that can take a beating and be rebult any time any where. But it also does not simmer very well. Not bad, but not quite what I was looking for....

Canada . Those punk kids are just that, fuck-em.

My concern is that it may not smmer that well. It is a single valve stove, not a double like the DragonFly. Anybody use this thing?

No I did not. I have a Pocket Rocket, and XGK II, and a Dragonfly. I would seriously lok at it though in place of the Dragonfly. The XGK II is the mountaineering, melt snow stove, and it will always be that. The Pocket Rocket is the fast and light, warm up water stove. (hard to beat I might add). Now the Dragonfly strikes me as a nice stove, but too heavy. Simmers great, but it doesn't put out the BTUs that the XGK III does, yet it is heavy. There are times when you want a liquid fuel stove (efficiency is much better), but you want to actually cook (need to simmer), not just burn-burn-burn like many of the MSR liquid fuel stoves. This struck me as one hell of a stove to fill that need. Anyone use this thing yet? I have yet to hear anything on it. Good Luck....

That sounds like a good idea to me...would anyone protest? How about it Beck?

Gore-tex and other WPBs have their place. They are not perfect. I grew up using actual coated nylon, old school non-breathable coating. They suck, and GoreTex is a HUGE improvement over the old technology (if you could even call that technology). Gore-tex's breathability is often slammed by those that never used the true old school coated nylon non-breathables. It is true that the breathability often cannot keep up with the activity. But eventually once the activity slows, with good baselayers, it will breath out the remaining sweat. If you've used the old stuff, you know exactly what I'm talking about. Whether you're moving or not, you sweat and with the coated non-breathables it just builds up inside. With Goretex it eventually works its way out. This is incorrect. If your Gortex is leaking take it back. Usually what happens is that your Goretex "wets out". This means that the DWR can no longer handle to volume of water on the surface of the material and it effectively clogs the Goretex's ability to breath, thus causing a build up of sweat on the inside just as the old school coated non-breathables did. All WBPs suffer from this effect. I have used breathable coatings and found them to peel too quickly. I have used GopreTex with mostly good results. I would recommend looking at Lowe Alpine's products. I have heard many good things regarding their waterproofness and breathability. I also used a pair of Sympatex bibs. They actually performed quite well for many years and I would buy the material again. However, it seems to be big in Europe, but has never caught on here in the states. Good luck...

See PMS's web-site. A lighter more versailte version of your ice climbing boots. I have them and I am very happy with them as an all around mountaineering boot. Rock climb well too and are pretty easy on the feet on approaches. Tecnica Ascend (Replaced by the Dunagiri GTX. Some stock still available.) $215 The all new Ascend Bio-Flex TCY model sets new standards for high-end backpacking footwear. The Tecnica Bio-Flex closure system combined with a highly abrasion resistant upper, will outperform normal leather boots in this category. The Ascend Bio-Flex TCY features a Vibram Ice Trek outsole, which is pneumatic crampon compatible, and an asymmetrical tongue. Color: Anthracite/Red Size: M: 7-13 Weight: 3 lbs. 10 oz. Upper: Kevlar/Nylon Lining: Tecni-Dry (TCY) Power Core/Insole: R Super Removable Footbed: Excel Outsole/Midsole: Vibram Ice Trek

Get a rappel rack

__________________________ Hello family and friends! I want to give you a brief update of my most recent visit with Erden and inform you of his projected arrival back to Seattle. I caught up with him on the road on Thursday, early evening just outside of Merritt, BC. I was so relieved to find him, as he had not traveled as far as he had projected, due to the unforgiving sun and heat of close to 100 degrees F. At one point, about 8 miles before I found him, I pulled over to give myself a pep talk and consider a "plan B." I had begun to worry that something had happened to him. I was prepared to drive all the way to Spences Bridge, where he had called me about 5 hours earlier that day, and ask anyone I saw if they had seen this guy on a bike pulling a big rig on the back! I was also preparing for worse. Fortunately, when I found him I was overjoyed! He was safe, but completely wiped out. (I don't know which of us was more happy to see the other at this point!!) He said he had not estimated the timing very well, and fell short of his projections. Plus, the up and down of the hills were terribly difficult given the heat index, so he could not make the time he thought originally he could. He decided he would take the ride into town that I offered him. We were able to fit the bike on top of my car and the rig in the back seat....with all of his gear, everything fit perfectly! Thank goodness for my Camry!! The trunk was already fairly full with camping and climbing gear. We were just 14 miles shy of Merritt and by the time we got there, he had consumed 4 beverages that I had in my cooler for him!!! We had dinner and then proceeded into Penticton. He rested thru another hot day on Friday, and we took it easy. Saturday we climbed at the Skaka Lake Bluffs and found a wonderful breeze and overcast skies that made for perfect climbing weather! Then we spent last eve. listening to a live Blues band in the city park under cool skies....a lovely evening. We drove back to the spot today where I had found him Thursday eve., and after a long hug, and a prolonged good-bye, he peddaled on. (That rig he is pulling, plus the food and stuff in the panniers, weighs a ton!!!! It is even hard for me to imagine that he can maneuver everything! He is one iron man...that's for sure!) Erden is projected to arrive in Vantage, WA (where he plans to lead Air Guitar) on Thursday or Friday this week. I will know for sure on Wednesday, and will update those who will be joining him there. We are now projecting a return to Seattle on either Monday, Aug. 25th or Tueday, Aug. 26th. I will join him after coordinating plans with his parents and Gerard Kropp, (Goran's father) who will be here for his arrival. I hope to bike back with him at least from North Bend to Seattle. Any of you wishing to join him, please let me know, and I will give you the details of his whereabouts as they unfold. As of yet, I have not planned a welcome home party...(where is my head??) but I think that is appropriate. Perhaps the weekend following his return would be best. That is actually Labor Day weekend. I will keep you informed if we do this....and the more I think about it, we really should. Right before I said good bye, he looked me in the eyes and said, "I will finish this." There was such strength and clarity in his words, that I knew he would. What he has accomplished is amazing to me, yet to him, he sees himself as an ordinary person doing something out of the ordinary....not extraordinary. But after 7 long and grueling months on the road, and all he has been through, he deserves to be honored. I am so ready to have him home!!!! There is much to celebrate indeed. So stay tuned, and please contact me directly if you would like to be part of a celebration. Email is best. I answer most often to this address, and info@around-n-over.org Thanks to all of you for your ongoing support! Regards, Nancy Nancy Board NRBoard@aol.com ---"Never fear that your life may come to a sudden end, rather fear that it may end before it has begun."---

The "hike" in with wife, kid, and dog will not be a breeze. Your posts indicates to me that the wife won't exactly enjoy humping the baby over Jackass Pass. Maybe I'm wrong? This would be a very long round trip day hike wi the gang and then get in a scramble while the wife waits a few hours by a lake. My recollection is that it is around 10 miles in and over Jackass Pass and another 10 out. Round trip it is certainly over twenty miles and that is without any scrambling. Granted not an Epic, but not a day hike with wife, kids, and dog. If you plan to spend more time in the area, which your post didn't seem to indicate, then it is feasible, however, then the wife will be spending more than a few hours by a lake and given the needs of a young child, you'll be humping a lot of weight. You could leave the wife in Pinedale and day hike in and out, but I doubt you'd enjoy it much. I'd stick to the Tetons. there are soo many great scrambles there. Have fun ...

I would double check it...I know PACK animals are allowed, with certain permits and restrictions. My recollection is that in "WILDERNESS AREAS" no dogs, cats, etc. are allowed. This is usually also true in national parks (backcountry). There are some distinctions between a national forest and a Wilderness area. The Wilderness Areas are in national Forests, but have many different rules and regulations. I am no claiming to know all of the rules, but my recollection is that those types of animals are not allowed. Once you leave Elkhart park you have about 3 miles of forest, then you are in the Wilderness area. Call the Forest Ranger Station in Pinedale, they'll let you know for sure. Good luck

Drop them from threee feet and then tell the owner that they had microfractures, then send them to me.... OK I'm kidding....Dru and CJ are correct. WD 40 or some other lubicant will work just fine.

Winds = Wilderness area = no dogs allowed. Also the Cirque is not exactly a day hike in. Especially with wife, kids, and fido. The Winds are great and filled with scrambles and low to moderate climbing, but hey involve what is often a prohibitive approach. You want to commit amble time and resources going in there. The Tetons are also full of great scrambles. Buck Mtn. has a couple of good ones from the east side. I think it is the north or north east ridge that is a real classic and goes at CL4. There is one right up the east face that goes at CL3 too. SW Coulior on the Middle and a good one on the North side of Symetery Spire also (easy day). Plenty moe, see Ortenburger's book. Yes the OS should go in a day if you are in shape. You'll have to down climb a few sections. Not real tough, but it could get real shitty in a fall. Or, bring a harness and Belay device and try to smake a ride on someone's rap line. Start real early and do your best to be off the high peaks in the afternoons, thunderboomers roll through quite often. NPS Rangers tend to have good beta (Jenny Lake).

So the lesson is...retire your turbopumps and jet engine fan blades if they take any kind of a fall on rock... Bit of a stretch from Aerospace to rock climbing? I think there are some differences, say the heat? Just to start with? In fact, a very good friend of mine is an Aerospace engineer, we've discussed this a few times (she is a very good climber too) and she tends to agree that it is mostly BS when it comes to climbing. (Again if it is a 60 meter fall on hard rock, I'd take a close look at it). Not trying to be an ass...but show me the fractures...so to speak.

Do a Google search for "microfractures carabiners" A real wealth of info........

I'm not so sure I but into the micro fractures thing. Its been sometime, but years ago I worked in a gear shop, and a BD rep showed the counter jockeys some test data that basically said the micro fracture arguments were just BS. Granted, if a biner takes a full on fall, reaching terminal velocity and slams into rock, I'd be warry and would retire the biner. But too many take this whole thing to the crazy level. One guy came in one day, and said that he thought our biner display was cool, and then chastized us for having it over a concrete floor, because the biners could be dropped (roughly 1ft. to 4ft.) onto the concrete floor causing micro fractures. At this height/impact any biner banging up against rock would be suspect, and we would return to steel biners. I try to stay up on the UIAA reports on ropes and gear and read the AAC info put our yearly. I have yet to see anything that indicates that micro fractures are an actual problem. Maybe I'm wrong... . Admitedly, I am no engineer or test guy. However, if this were such a problem, gear companies would be reminding us at every dropped biner, not just for liability reasons, but so they could get people to buy more gear. There is nothing in BD literature that comes with thiere hardware. Also, where are all of the accidents reports on gear failing because of micro fractures? Anyone know of any reports on the web? If you have old gear that you dropped, send it one to me. Send me a PM and I'll pass on my address info.

Also, you CAN rap using a large and a small diameter rope, however, because of the differences in sizes, the rope will feed through in a funky way. That is why I said use a 7mm. Go much smaller and it will really get kinked up. (as others said, smaller than 7mm works as a zipcord)

If the terrain is step and straight forward, the second should haul it behind/trail it. Think about it....if the leader's rope doesn't stick, what are the odds of the seconds sticking...sure it can happen, but again, if the terain is step and straight forward, the second should haul it behind/trail it. 2 cents

I'm no expert, but Figger Eight has it right, at least by my understanding. There are sources on the web. Do a search. I have read that it can double the impact/force on the gear/biner.draw making a failure more likely.

Climbing with a double rope system can be a bit trickey and if you are not used to it, I wouldn't start with something that is at your limits. But it isn't rocket science either. Be sure that if you do use two larger dimater ropes in a double system that YOU DO NOT PUT BOTH ROPES THROUGH ONE PIECE OF GEAR. NOT GOOD. This will produce too much force on the gear and is MUCH more likely to cause something to fail in a true leader fall. If the route is steep and straight forward the second can simply tie it to his/her harness and follow with it dangling behind him. This may prove to be the wrong answer on alpine terrain that wonders, has steps, etc. You don't want it to get caught up in/on anything. Or you can have the second carry it in a day pack. Can't you just pick up a smaller diameter rope, say 7mm, for rapelling?

I recently dropped my belay device on a route in the tetons . Yes I am am !!! In many yeras I have never dropped anything of note. Anyway, it (BD ATC) is gone. So the question is what belay device(s) do you recommend and why? It will be used for most all types of climbing, alpine and crag rock. Rapelling (only as required), ice and mountaineering. I was looking at the old BD ATC, new BD ATC, the Reverso, the BRD, and the Trango pyramid, the Trango B-52(?). Any others you would recommend? Thanks in advance ...

You got it crackbolter...is that from a web page?