nolanr

How much effort should we put into understanding the motivations of terrorist attackers, or even non-terrorists who don't like us or our foreign policies? Don't know the answer to that. Part of the problem is, we're looking at 3rd world countries ruled by oppressive governments (or pseudo govts.) and it's oh-so convenient to turn the U.S. and the rest of the west into the Great Satan to give focus to the unrest and angst of their people, so that that focus isn't turned onto the oppressive government. Undoubtedly there is propaganda here, and manipulation of the population by the gov't and media, but I think it is far worse in the Middle East. Also, if so many from the Middle East truly loathe us, why do so many attend our universities or immigrate here? 'Cause it's a lot better than what they left behind. I think it gets overstated sometimes how much the average Middle Easterner hates the U.S. I bet there's some Afghanis that aren't too sad the Taliban is running away from most of their strongholds w/ their tails between their legs right now.

Damn, somebody got bashed for not partaking of the wacky weed, and it wasn't me this time.

The Israeli/Palestinian SNAFU got brought up in a couple posts, so I have to respond to that. The Palestinians should have their own country, I'll give you that. But any intelligent educated person can deny this fact: the Arab/Islamic/Middle Eastern agenda is to wipe Israel off the face of the map. I saw an interesting little fact, something like 80% of what is historically the Palestinian homeland is in...Jordan. Do they have any conflicts w/ Jordan? Not that I know of. Their beef is strictly w/ Israel, and if you keep slicing off little pieces of Israel and feeding it to Arafat, that will not satisfy him or any other Middle Eastern country.

What's up? Has it been a bad year, or is that normal? There was the guy this summer, I think he was traversing the 3 Sisters, failed to show up at the trailhead to be picked up. Last I heard they hadn't found him. 2 guys disappeared around Broken Top this weekend. Maybe there was something else, too. Things can always go wrong in the mountains, but that isn't really the most rugged, remote area. Don't get me wrong, I love it down there, I'm just surprised by the number of disappearances or accidents.

Morningstar/Lewis...hell, just go for Del Campo, the coolest of the bunch. I just did Vesper on Sat.

Meters, kilometers...what? We're in the US of A, don't be talkin' that Canadian stuff around here.

Thanks for the replies, that's helpful.

My parka is thrashed, doesn't keep out water at all, time for a new one. Saw a Marmot Precip shell jacket on Campmor's website for $99. Seems pretty reasonably priced. Anybody have one of these or know anything about them?

Paraphrase: The damn USGS topo map has the summit mislabeled, but I know better than they do...

Back to the actual topic of colleges located near climbing areas, BC and Alberta must have some good ones. Dru, you're the expert on this one, eh?

Damn, well I got the omni part right anyway. Hey, isn't that the name of the old basketball arena in Atlanta? Ever climb there? But listen young man (I'm 29 so I can call you young), you'll be lucky if you're still alive at Beckey's present age, let alone getting out and about as much as he does, supplying climbing enthusiasts w/ a never ending supply of stories that begin "I ran into this grouchy, crusty old guy..."

Hey, CO has way more 14,000' walkups than WA does, so that counts for something, right? Snicker, snicker. I'm starting to get mighty curious about the Olympics myself. I've been out to Royal Basin a couple times in less than ideal conditions, some day I'll get out there in the summer and play around on the Needles and Mt. Deception (Fricaba was a beautiful, easy moonlit scramble). Yes, Fred made it out that way a few times for some FA's. Of course Fred has been pretty much everywhere. He's more omnipresent than Will Strickland. As for AK, I heard this saying: You can't get there from here. Unless you have a canoe or a float plane or something. But roads, fuhgetaboutit.

Read David Roberts book, it's called something like "True Summit, What Really Happened on Annapurna." Basically everybody else had to absolutely swear they wouldn't go to the press w/ their version of the expedition, for like 15 or 20 years or something. I'm just reading the part in "Conquistadors..." about the Annapurna expedition. Of the 3 other principal climbers, Terray is probably the one who was the least bitter towards Herzog. Rebuffat and Lachenal were both pretty hacked off for a lotta years over the practical deification Herzog got and the lack of publicity and credit the rest of them got. Anyway, other versions of what happened over there came out eventually. No one's recollections are exactly the same as another's, as you would expect.

I see some of you are well versed in Terray. I'm still working on the book. Another part that cracked me up, when they were nearing the end of the Eigerwand, Terray was leading an (comparatively, at least) easy pitch. He thought it was the longest pitch he'd ever done and figured something was up. He kept turning around to check, but could never catch Lachenal moving behind him. But every time Lionel started climbing again, Louis would start following. Nothing like simul-climbing w/out knowing that you're simul-climbing. Also, when they did the Piz Badile. They were just screwing around because the weather looked threatening, but totally taking it easy they were up to Cassin's first bivi site in a few hours. They pushed a little further and were well up the mountain. Lachenal basically said "What the hell, we can knock this thing off in a few more hours, the weather will hold that long" and headed up before Terray had a chance to try to talk him out of it. Anyway, one of the more entertaining mountaineering reads I've gotten my hands on.

I haven't been there, but have a friend who graduated from U. of Wyoming. Very close to climbing at Vedauwoo (or something like that), but you better like cracks 'cause that's all they have. Not sure about the proximity of skiing or alpine climbing. It can't be ridiculously far away from Wind Rivers or Grand Teton NP. Went to CWU in E-burg myself, unfortunately I was a musclehead and didn't take advantage of the outdoor rec opportunities. Don't forget nearby alpine havens of Stuart Range/Enchantments. I hear what you're saying about Owens Valley, CA. Did a 4 day backpacking trip w/ my bro this summer in Muir Wilderness/Kings Canyon NP, looks like no shortage of awesome stuff to see and do. As far as Alaska, I'm sure the campus at Anchorage has lots of stuff nearby. However I've been to the Fairbanks campus, and it didn't seem to be close to ANYTHING. It was half a day's drive to Denali NP if I remember correctly.

Yeah, that's pretty impressive. I think my body would totally break down before I logged that many miles. I once hiked 14 out of 16 days or something like that, probably only averaged 10 mi./day or something, and it wasn't thru hiking, some here and some there, some day hikes and some multiday backpacks. Anyway, by the end my knees were getting pretty sore and I had some pretty annoying ankle pain/shin splint type thingys going on. I can't really understand the 30+ miles per day everyday, from dark til dark, not hardly stopping for anything. Hey, if the guy ate on the fly, I wonder if he crapped and whizzed on the fly too? Doesn't sound like fun to me. I've kinda been doing the PCT in short sections in WA and OR. I'm sure the CDT would be pretty awesome. But I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in the AT.

Noooooo, don't take my Broken Top away.

This is from Conquistadors of the Useless, I love it: "...We [Lachenal & Terray] did comparatively few first ascents, though opportunities were certainly not lacking at that time. The repetition of the really great alpine routes [like 3rd ascent of Walker Spur and 2nd of Eiger North Face!] seemed to us much more interesting than discovering obscure little climbs in remote corners. Like ugly girls, many of the ridges and faces which preserved their virginity until comparatively recently did so more from lack of attraction than from intrinsic difficulty. As for the minute facets and riblets on which some climbers try to build a reputation today, they will never have more than the ephemeral interest given to them by a Press ignorant of mountain values--but perhaps that is all such climbers require." So if Terray was alive today, do you think he'd be all into bouldering and sit starts? Ha ha.

Knee deep snow in Royal Basin (Olympics) on Sat., a little bit all the way down to the trailhead and lower, probably about 2000.' It's beginning to look a lot like Christmas...

Snowed a fair bit Friday night, Saturday morning, I was into knee deep snow on Sat., probably half of that was fresh overnight. Kinda slushy and sloppy.

Oops, I guess you can't vote for yourself, 'cuz I just tried. Gotta bring my score up. Somebody help me out, throw the dog a friggin' bone.

Alright, who gave me one star?! Battle cage buddy.

I agree, get more comfortable on rock cragging first, work up to leading there, then you can lead alpine rock routes. It took me several years to work up to that. Another thing that was invaluable in developing the ability to keep my nerves calm when leading was doing 3rd/4th/maybe low 5th class scrambling free solo on various peaks. Never technically difficult, sometimes poor quality rock, but the mentality of "falling is not an option" was developed. You learn pretty quick that you can't allow your nervousness or fear, which is normal, to paralyze you. You stay in one spot, you peel off eventually. Sometimes you just absolutely have to move up or traverse or something, but you have to move. It's a trip, I did quite a bit of that one summer/fall, and the next year leading was quite a bit more mellow for me. As far as Mounties intermediate class, I have a buddy who has been working on that for 1 1/2 years. You'll have to be a leader on a bunch of beginner climbs. Sometimes he's had fun w/ it, sometimes it's a drag being stuck w/ a bunch of gumbies. It might be a good option for you to gain more experience. Anyway, have fun whatever you end up doing.

Dude, I think all you guys are rating yourselves and giving 5 stars.

Scott H., Did Del Campo go? I was playing around on Gothic on Sat. I heard some rock fall coming from that direction but couldn't see anybody climbing on Del Campo.