Alpine_Tom

A bit of history re. the raw-log export issue. It was done by the Reagan administration to balance the tremendous trade deficits with Japan. Not because the government was capitalist or socialist, but because it was mercantilist. Unfortunately, a lot of mill workers lost their jobs, and the fingers were pointed at the spotted owl, because it was a more convenient scapegoat, than blaming Americans for prefering Japanese cars to Detroit's. Another important issue to remember is that logging in public forests costs the government a lot more money than it gets from the leases. The Tsongas forest in particular is the largest money-loser of all the National Forests in the country. What this means, is we have been subsidizing exports, at the cost of jobs, to artificially bring down the balance-of-trade deficit. Your tax dollars at work. (references available on request) Not that any of this political screed has much to do with opening the West Side road. My personal beliefs are that the park service is more interested in serving the public than in restricting access so they can sit on their butts. They're sure not in it for the money! [This message has been edited by Alpine Tom (edited 07-17-2001).]

And now, too late for any useful input, comes the following e-mail to a question I posted on this topic to the N. Cascades website: --- Galen Stark <Galen_Stark@nps.gov> wrote: > Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 13:45:09 -0400 > From: Galen_Stark@nps.gov (Galen Stark) > Subject: Re:Fwd:north cascades climbing rangers > > Mr. Breit: > > Thank you for your inquiry. > > The 1964 Wilderness Act, the National Park Service > Wilderness Management policy > (Directors Order and Reference Manual 41), and the > North Cascades National Park > Wilderness Management Plan provide direction to > protect and manage wilderness to > retain its primeval character and influence, without > permanent improvements or > human habitation, preserving natural conditions, > generally appearing to have > been affected primarily by the forces of nature, > with the imprint of man's work > substantially unnoticeable, and, except as necessary > to meet minimum > requirements for the administration of the area, > there shall be no structure or > installation within any such area. > > A summit register can be considered an > "installation," and serves no purpose to > the National Park Service in the administration of > the wilderness. The > placement of such registers in wilderness is > inappropriate. Some registers were > removed by NPS staff from remote summits during the > 1990's, leading to a > mid-1990's dialogue with the Mountaineers on the > subject. I understand that the > resulting agreement was to leave registers (metal > canisters) at the more > prominent peaks. The NPS does not presently remove > these metal canister > registers. > > Galen Stark > Wilderness District Ranger > North Cascades National Park > 7280 Ranger Station Road > Marblemount, WA 98267 > 360-873-4590, ext. 14

I'd be fine with a shuttle, except you know it would be run strictly for day hikers. It'd run about once an hour, starting around 9:00 AM, and the last shuttle out will be at 4:30 or so. Climbers? Fine, as long as you don't plan on an early start, or descend in the afternoon. They could have people park at the Sunshine Point campground, and run the shuttle from there. I can certainly see, if there's water running across the road, that they don't want to open it to cars that'll erode it quckly and turn it into an impassible mess (and get some Oldsmobile stuck there!) [This message has been edited by Alpine Tom (edited 07-13-2001).]

This topic is a bit worrisome to me. This sort of advice works great as long as everything goes okay, as it probably will, but what happens if you get lost, one of you twists an ankle, and then a freak summer snowstorm hits? When I did Adams Glacier with Alex K., my pack probably weighed twice what his did -- and he carried the tent and the rope! His sleeping bag went into a stuff sack smaller than my down jacket's. My steel crampons (in their bag) probably weighed as much as his plastic boots, and his aluminum crampons weighed almost nothing. Certainly I hauled some extra weight, and my pack is heavier than it needs to be, and for a 3-mile hike in to high camp where there's two dozen other people, it doesn't really matter that much. But if you're going to be in an isolated part of the state, for a multiday outing, well, weather reports are about as accurate as horiscopes, and maps and route descriptions aren't always up to date. Of course, most of the time you'll play it fast and light, and come out ahead. But in my view (which I've ignored plenty of times) you need to buy the time that a few extra pounds of gear (a heavier jacket, some extra food, etc.) In particular, I sure wouldn't count on being able to find burnable firewood this time of year, even if you're someplace where it's legal to do. (Of course, I was never a boy scout...) And, if this guy's a novice, and is travelling alone, as it sounds, well, geez...

quote: Originally posted by nolanr: Except for my knees have been getting really sore on steep descents lately, maybe bulking up my quads again would help w/ that. That's not a lack of conditioning, that's age, my friend.

The ridge that joins Mt. Snoqualmie and Guye Peak is called Cave Ridge. I’d assumed that the name came from some old mining tunnel, since there was a lot of mining activity in the area, but a friend said that there are real, spelunking-type caves up there. Anyone here know anything about this?

Another Neitzsche quote, courtesy FB: "Be the hammer or the anvil" I'm with Dru on training. My only "training" consists of bicycling to work (23 mi rt.) I'm sure I'd feel less sore after exploits like Adams Glacier if I did some running too, but I just can't, it's just too bloody tedious, even with a Walkman.

Did you approach on the West Side Road? If so, what sort of condition was it in?

I'm betting half (or more) are IT types. (Like me, a LAN guy.) The next largest group will be in the legal field.

quote: Originally posted by Brian Rybolt: I understand that the Westside road in Mt Rainier Park has been adequately repaired for quite some time now Where did you get your information? I had heard (from a friend of a friend)that the Westside road is a fairly pleasant mountain bike ride, with a couple of washed out spots that they had to carry their bikes. Perhaps your info is newer than mine?

The last couple of years, I've noticed places like REI selling scales that purport to measure your body fat percentage, apparently by means of a small electrical current. Any idea whether they are of any use, or is it just another gimic, like the BMI index?

quote: Originally posted by Alex: Tom Breit and I were the second party you mention, Sunday. FYI, I posted a trip report for this climb in the Southern Wa Cascades area: http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000013.html

You know that song from "A Chorus Line" Dance 10, Looks 3? I guess if she's trying to make a living in the climbing spotlight, publishing books and such, anything she can do to increase the appeal might be considered a good idea. Ultimately, it's up to her, and people like hollyclimber (other women climbers) have a lot more to say about it than us guys. Personally, the idea of encouraging the woman in your life to get plastic surgery to make her more like what YOU want seems pretty selfish. But that's my own prejudice. Besides, if it makes her look a lot more desirable than she does now, why would she keep hanging around with YOU?

quote: Originally posted by erik: why would anyone want to drive by steve swenson's house?! I worked with Steve for a few years, and I was impressed by what a likeable, unpretentious guy he was. He was easily one of the most well-liked engineers in the department, both by coworkers and clients. A guy who delays his expedition to Gasherbrum 4 so as not to miss his son's high school graduation, and who can find something nice to say in public about Sandy Pittman, has a hell of a lot of class in my book.

I've taken my dog Max (actually, my in-law's dog) up Pilchuck, Glacier Peak, Sloan Peak (he didn't summit) Forgotten, Shuksan, as well as smaller outings. And, our westie made it to the top of Pilchuck in a blizzard this spring! Max is a yellow lab-coyote cross (I think, he was a stray) and I've worried too about snowblindness. He doesn't seem to mind (well, he doesn't squint.) I asked a vet about it, he didn't know, but didn't seem very worried about it. It'd be really good to know if there was anything to worry about, and if so anything that could be done about it. Max clearly loves climbing and being on snow, but I hate to think I'm hurting his vision.

Adams Glacier trip report I did this climb with Alex Krawarik, June 30-July 1. Conditions are just about perfect, but will probably be deteriorating soon. A lot of people have been doing this route; a woman we ran into at the camp said that about eight climbers were on it on Saturday, including a couple of climbers we saw topping out around 2:00 PM. We only saw one other party of two on Sunday. We got to the Killen Creek trailhead around 11:00, and arrived at High Camp in about 2.5 hrs. The trail was snowfree until after the PC trail, and even then snow was only in patches. There is a huge number of campsites scattered around; probably a hundred people could be camped around there without impacting each other much (unless you’re like that bunch that was there hollering and shouting until midnight.) Interestingly, we ran into John Burroughs, the president of Cascade Designs, on Sunday, and he said that the Divide Creek trail starts higher and is a bit shorter access to the High Camp. The map appears to bear this out; I don’t know why everyone directs climbers to the Killen Creek trail. We left camp around 4:30 AM Sunday (Canada Day!) and were at the base of the climb in about an hour. The approach is pretty obvious, and there were boot tracks to follow, but there are a number of open crevasses on the approach; it might have the most objective danger on the climb. The glacier itself was in very good shape, very hard snow, icy towards the top. It’s a fairly constant 30-35 degree angle most of the way. It was easy to get around the obstacles on the way up. At the top are a couple of big crevasses, including a very impressive bergschrund with a 15’ thick snow bridge, but once that goes, the finish is going to be a challenge. Also, towards the top things are pretty icy, since it gets the afternoon sun there. Thanks to whoever those guys were who were on the route so late on Saturday; they left nice deep steps in the upper part of the route, which made things much easier for us. We topped out in around 6 hours; since it was my first time on Adams, I insisted on slogging the last half-mile or so to the true summit. Equipment notes: I wore my leathers and hinged crampons, which are totally unsuitable for this sort of route. In fact, I managed to get one crampon twisted sideways on my boot while sidestepping on the hard surface, something I’ve never had happen before. Alex had no problems at all with his plastic boots and aluminum crampons. We roped up, but didn’t set any pro. We just used ice axes; a second tool might have been convenient if you’re a worrier like me. We descended the North Ridge, which is in (comparatively) good shape. A number of parties had climbed it this weekend, including one group we met near the summit who’d come in to do the Lava Glacier headwall, but decided it was in bad shape (it looked pretty bad.) The N. Ridge seemed pretty twisty and crumbly, with plenty of exposure, where a slip on a loose bit of rock (and there's a LOT of loose rock!) could send you on a really long ride down onto the Lava Glacier. The route didn’t look very appealing to me, but Alex thought it might be worth doing, and there were sure a lot of people on it. Start VERY early, when everything is still frozen in place. There are several campsites near the bottom of the N. Ridge, it’d be worthwhile camping there to save some time. We descended with one party of three who’d camped at the bottom of the ridge, and they made the summit in 3 1/2 hours. [This message has been edited by Alpine Tom (edited 07-02-2001).]

I would have been a lot more impressed if he wasn't such an asshole. I'm a cyclist too, so I read the book with great hopes. First, the dust jacket claims he was only the second person to summit K2 w/o supplimenal oxygen, which is crap. Hell, of the four guys who summited in the first US climb in 78, THREE of them summited w/o oxygen. And, so much of the book is all about who lied about summiting this or that mountain --Carlos Carsolio didn't actually summit K2; Benoit Chamonix turned around 30 verital feet from the summit of Shisha Pangma, so he cheated too, everyone but Kropp cheated on Everest because they used bottled oxygen or used ropes that others had fixed, or let other people carry their gear. And, gosh, no one appreciates Kropp for being such an honest, upright guy! Everyone has their own view of "fair means" which may or may not include bottled oxygen, crampons (which were considered bad form on Rainier in the '30s) sherpas, sharing fixed ropes, and a host of other things, but it's one thing to decide for yourself that "By God, this is the way I have to do it, to be right for me" and quite another to spend half your book declaiming how your way is the only objectively fair way, and everyone else is cheating. If nothing else, he's learned so much from the climbers that have come before him, from Mallory to Hillary to Messner, and gained so much from all the high-tech climbing gear, modern weather forecasting, knowledge of high-altitude physiology and nutrition, and other advantages, that his climb has a lot more in common to Sandy Pittman's than to Mallory's. I'm the first to admit that I likely couldn't make it to the top of Everest if I was short-roped, and I will never bicycle 6000 miles to a climb and back. I certainly respect that grit and determination. But I can't respect his attitude.

Ultimate High - Goran Kropp Everyone but me cheats in their climbing, and lies about their ascents. No one appreciates me. Now I'm finished with climbing (see - here's my tick list!) I'm going to straighten out the sailing world next. [This message has been edited by Alpine Tom (edited 06-29-2001).]

quote: Originally posted by verticalswamp: One of my in-laws belong to it and regularly did the Fiji assignment. Tough duty! It's inspiring to hear of people willing to sacrifice so much for their calling.

There's a website called "On Stagnant Pond" with a flamingo that you can have them send you, and take its picture someplace scenic, and they post it on their site. I was going to take it up Mt. Rainier, but apparently you have to schedule it pretty far in advance.

On tap? Pilsner Urquel. or Maritime Pacific's dark wheat, if it's available. Bottled? Portland Brewing's McTarnahan's Scottish. Or Bridgeport. It's interesting no one's mentioned Grants, since they started the whole microbrew thing in the PNW. I don't care for their ales, though, too hoppy and kind of sour.

Well, I was home Tuesday, so I called the N. Cascades NP (360-873-4500) and left a message for their head climbing ranger, Kelly Bush, who left a message on my home answering machine yesterday. "The short answer" as she put it, is that no, the forest service does NOT have a policy of removing summit registers. They used to, but haven't since at least 1997, as a result of "a dialog with the climbing community." I'm not sure what that means, if it's the Mountaineers or what. She said she was interested in discussing it further with me, unfortunately she's in the field much of the day, and I'm at work, so I guess this answer will have to suffice. I heard someplace that some summit registers, like Mt. Constance in particular, are pilfered as souvenirs. It's possible that might be happening on some of the more accessible peaks, like Sahali or Boston.

Last winter three of us were going to attempt Little Tahoma, so I called and talked to a climbing ranger, who said the conditions were fairly good. I asked specifically about registering early at Paradise, and he said “no problem, you can show up at midnight.” He didn’t mention that the road up to Paradise was gated at Longmire every night from 5:00 PM to 9:00 AM or so during the winter. Turned out that even the lady at the latte stand outside the park knew about it. Not this ranger, though.

Is there a ranger out there (like Mike Gauthier) who knows something about this? is this an actual policy, or up to the individual ranger, or just an urban (or wilderness) legend. Seems like, at a minimum, it would be exceptionally bad form to "toss" the register tube off the summit, that they'd need to pack it down with them. There's enough other stuff that are "installations not in keeping with wilderness" like bridges and trail improvements of various kinds, that it doesn't seem very realistic that they'd care about this. On the other hand, it's been a few years since I've actually seen one... FWIW, I really enjoy leafing through the summit registers. Shortly after I got Vol 1 of the "Selected Climbs" I climbed up a little peak up by Chair peak, and in the summit register I saw the signature of Eve Dearborn, about whom I'd just learned.

Dwayner -- you're the CAMROD guy? Hey, guys -- he's famous!! I didn't believe it when someone told me about CAMROD (I skipped a couple of years) then I saw you out there in '99 on the climb up to Paradise-- and I still didn't believe it! I've always wondered -- how many croquet balls do you go through?