Alpine_Tom

I guess you could just take the Arnold Schwarzenegger approach -- jump up and down while watching yourself in the mirror. If it jiggles, it's fat.

I did it (with Alex) a few weeks ago, and was surprised by how quick it seemed to go. In my opinion, it's certainly more interesting than the Emmonds route. The Emmonds route just goes on and on and on... You'll need boots that you can frontpoint in. We just used ice axes, but I would have felt more comfortable with a 2nd tool. Adams Glacier trip report I did this climb with Alex Krawarik, June 30-July 1. Conditions are just about perfect, but will probably be deteriorating soon. A lot of people have been doing this route; a woman we ran into at the camp said that about eight climbers were on it on Saturday, including a couple of climbers we saw topping out around 2:00 PM. We only saw one other party of two on Sunday. We got to the Killen Creek trailhead around 11:00, and arrived at High Camp in about 2.5 hrs. The trail was snowfree until after the PC trail, and even then snow was only in patches. There is a huge number of campsites scattered around; probably a hundred people could be camped around there without impacting each other much (unless you’re like that bunch that was there hollering and shouting until midnight.) Interestingly, we ran into John Burroughs, the president of Cascade Designs, on Sunday, and he said that the Divide Creek trail starts higher and is a bit shorter access to the High Camp. The map appears to bear this out; I don’t know why everyone directs climbers to the Killen Creek trail. We left camp around 4:30 AM Sunday (Canada Day!) and were at the base of the climb in about an hour. The approach is pretty obvious, and there were boot tracks to follow, but there are a number of open crevasses on the approach; it might have the most objective danger on the climb. The glacier itself was in very good shape, very hard snow, icy towards the top. It’s a fairly constant 30-35 degree angle most of the way. It was easy to get around the obstacles on the way up. At the top are a couple of big crevasses, including a very impressive bergschrund with a 15’ thick snow bridge, but once that goes, the finish is going to be a challenge. Also, towards the top things are pretty icy, since it gets the afternoon sun there. Thanks to whoever those guys were who were on the route so late on Saturday; they left nice deep steps in the upper part of the route, which made things much easier for us. We topped out in around 6 hours; since it was my first time on Adams, I insisted on slogging the last half-mile or so to the true summit. Equipment notes: I wore my leathers and hinged crampons, which are totally unsuitable for this sort of route. In fact, I managed to get one crampon twisted sideways on my boot while sidestepping on the hard surface, something I’ve never had happen before. Alex had no problems at all with his plastic boots and aluminum crampons. We roped up, but didn’t set any pro. We just used ice axes; a second tool might have been convenient if you’re a worrier like me. We descended the North Ridge, which is in (comparatively) good shape. A number of parties had climbed it this weekend, including one group we met near the summit who’d come in to do the Lava Glacier headwall, but decided it was in bad shape (it looked pretty bad.) The N. Ridge seemed pretty twisty and crumbly, with plenty of exposure, where a slip on a loose bit of rock (and there's a LOT of loose rock!) could send you on a really long ride down onto the Lava Glacier. The route didn’t look very appealing to me, but Alex thought it might be worth doing, and there were sure a lot of people on it. Start VERY early, when everything is still frozen in place. There are several campsites near the bottom of the N. Ridge, it’d be worthwhile camping there to save some time. We descended with one party of three who’d camped at the bottom of the ridge, and they made the summit in 3 1/2 hours. [This message has been edited by Alpine Tom (edited 07-02-2001).] I pasted the trip report from an earlier cached version of the board for purposes of filing in the Trip Report Index on 2-4-04. --Off White

I think Lambone is on the right track. Their primary responsibility is safety. Given the kinds of people whom we all see out there if I was in their job I'd overstate the dangers, too. Sure, some rangers are jerks, just like some cops, and some baristas, are jerks. I doubt that people become NPS rangers beause they want to sit on the butts, and they SURE don't do it for the money. There was a report of a woman who hiked up halfdome (?) last year and called on her cell phone for a helicopter rescue because she was tired, and threatened to sue the ranger because they refused to send one. I'm sure any NPS ranger could tell you stories like that that they witnessed until you got tired of listening. I think we all got pretty worked up reading Pencil Pusher's story about Judd. I'm guessing folks like Juddd are a regular occurance for MRNP rangers. Imagine having to deal with Judds a couple of times a week, all summer.

Actually, quitting before a summit "because the conditions just didn't look safe" does a lot to reassure my wife. So, whenever I fail to summit, I report "it didn't look safe" whatever the real reason. That and a cellular phone, so I can call on the climb (when there's service) to let her know I'm fine and it was no big deal. It's my feeling that it's easier to be safe climbing than, say, driving to work, because you're in someplace relatively novel, so you're more likely to pay attention than driving down I-5 for the 900th time, late to work and annoyed at the jerk who just cut you off. Even cycling to work, like I do, you tend not to pay attention when you've ridden the route a lot. I get to work and realize I have no recollection of most of the ride; that never happens in the mountains. But I question some of those statistics too -- 1 in 5000 people die of the flu?

A bit of history re. the raw-log export issue. It was done by the Reagan administration to balance the tremendous trade deficits with Japan. Not because the government was capitalist or socialist, but because it was mercantilist. Unfortunately, a lot of mill workers lost their jobs, and the fingers were pointed at the spotted owl, because it was a more convenient scapegoat, than blaming Americans for prefering Japanese cars to Detroit's. Another important issue to remember is that logging in public forests costs the government a lot more money than it gets from the leases. The Tsongas forest in particular is the largest money-loser of all the National Forests in the country. What this means, is we have been subsidizing exports, at the cost of jobs, to artificially bring down the balance-of-trade deficit. Your tax dollars at work. (references available on request) Not that any of this political screed has much to do with opening the West Side road. My personal beliefs are that the park service is more interested in serving the public than in restricting access so they can sit on their butts. They're sure not in it for the money! [This message has been edited by Alpine Tom (edited 07-17-2001).]

And now, too late for any useful input, comes the following e-mail to a question I posted on this topic to the N. Cascades website: --- Galen Stark <Galen_Stark@nps.gov> wrote: > Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 13:45:09 -0400 > From: Galen_Stark@nps.gov (Galen Stark) > Subject: Re:Fwd:north cascades climbing rangers > > Mr. Breit: > > Thank you for your inquiry. > > The 1964 Wilderness Act, the National Park Service > Wilderness Management policy > (Directors Order and Reference Manual 41), and the > North Cascades National Park > Wilderness Management Plan provide direction to > protect and manage wilderness to > retain its primeval character and influence, without > permanent improvements or > human habitation, preserving natural conditions, > generally appearing to have > been affected primarily by the forces of nature, > with the imprint of man's work > substantially unnoticeable, and, except as necessary > to meet minimum > requirements for the administration of the area, > there shall be no structure or > installation within any such area. > > A summit register can be considered an > "installation," and serves no purpose to > the National Park Service in the administration of > the wilderness. The > placement of such registers in wilderness is > inappropriate. Some registers were > removed by NPS staff from remote summits during the > 1990's, leading to a > mid-1990's dialogue with the Mountaineers on the > subject. I understand that the > resulting agreement was to leave registers (metal > canisters) at the more > prominent peaks. The NPS does not presently remove > these metal canister > registers. > > Galen Stark > Wilderness District Ranger > North Cascades National Park > 7280 Ranger Station Road > Marblemount, WA 98267 > 360-873-4590, ext. 14

I'd be fine with a shuttle, except you know it would be run strictly for day hikers. It'd run about once an hour, starting around 9:00 AM, and the last shuttle out will be at 4:30 or so. Climbers? Fine, as long as you don't plan on an early start, or descend in the afternoon. They could have people park at the Sunshine Point campground, and run the shuttle from there. I can certainly see, if there's water running across the road, that they don't want to open it to cars that'll erode it quckly and turn it into an impassible mess (and get some Oldsmobile stuck there!) [This message has been edited by Alpine Tom (edited 07-13-2001).]

This topic is a bit worrisome to me. This sort of advice works great as long as everything goes okay, as it probably will, but what happens if you get lost, one of you twists an ankle, and then a freak summer snowstorm hits? When I did Adams Glacier with Alex K., my pack probably weighed twice what his did -- and he carried the tent and the rope! His sleeping bag went into a stuff sack smaller than my down jacket's. My steel crampons (in their bag) probably weighed as much as his plastic boots, and his aluminum crampons weighed almost nothing. Certainly I hauled some extra weight, and my pack is heavier than it needs to be, and for a 3-mile hike in to high camp where there's two dozen other people, it doesn't really matter that much. But if you're going to be in an isolated part of the state, for a multiday outing, well, weather reports are about as accurate as horiscopes, and maps and route descriptions aren't always up to date. Of course, most of the time you'll play it fast and light, and come out ahead. But in my view (which I've ignored plenty of times) you need to buy the time that a few extra pounds of gear (a heavier jacket, some extra food, etc.) In particular, I sure wouldn't count on being able to find burnable firewood this time of year, even if you're someplace where it's legal to do. (Of course, I was never a boy scout...) And, if this guy's a novice, and is travelling alone, as it sounds, well, geez...

quote: Originally posted by nolanr: Except for my knees have been getting really sore on steep descents lately, maybe bulking up my quads again would help w/ that. That's not a lack of conditioning, that's age, my friend.

The ridge that joins Mt. Snoqualmie and Guye Peak is called Cave Ridge. I’d assumed that the name came from some old mining tunnel, since there was a lot of mining activity in the area, but a friend said that there are real, spelunking-type caves up there. Anyone here know anything about this?

Another Neitzsche quote, courtesy FB: "Be the hammer or the anvil" I'm with Dru on training. My only "training" consists of bicycling to work (23 mi rt.) I'm sure I'd feel less sore after exploits like Adams Glacier if I did some running too, but I just can't, it's just too bloody tedious, even with a Walkman.

Did you approach on the West Side Road? If so, what sort of condition was it in?

I'm betting half (or more) are IT types. (Like me, a LAN guy.) The next largest group will be in the legal field.

quote: Originally posted by Brian Rybolt: I understand that the Westside road in Mt Rainier Park has been adequately repaired for quite some time now Where did you get your information? I had heard (from a friend of a friend)that the Westside road is a fairly pleasant mountain bike ride, with a couple of washed out spots that they had to carry their bikes. Perhaps your info is newer than mine?

The last couple of years, I've noticed places like REI selling scales that purport to measure your body fat percentage, apparently by means of a small electrical current. Any idea whether they are of any use, or is it just another gimic, like the BMI index?

quote: Originally posted by Alex: Tom Breit and I were the second party you mention, Sunday. FYI, I posted a trip report for this climb in the Southern Wa Cascades area: http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000013.html

You know that song from "A Chorus Line" Dance 10, Looks 3? I guess if she's trying to make a living in the climbing spotlight, publishing books and such, anything she can do to increase the appeal might be considered a good idea. Ultimately, it's up to her, and people like hollyclimber (other women climbers) have a lot more to say about it than us guys. Personally, the idea of encouraging the woman in your life to get plastic surgery to make her more like what YOU want seems pretty selfish. But that's my own prejudice. Besides, if it makes her look a lot more desirable than she does now, why would she keep hanging around with YOU?

quote: Originally posted by erik: why would anyone want to drive by steve swenson's house?! I worked with Steve for a few years, and I was impressed by what a likeable, unpretentious guy he was. He was easily one of the most well-liked engineers in the department, both by coworkers and clients. A guy who delays his expedition to Gasherbrum 4 so as not to miss his son's high school graduation, and who can find something nice to say in public about Sandy Pittman, has a hell of a lot of class in my book.

I've taken my dog Max (actually, my in-law's dog) up Pilchuck, Glacier Peak, Sloan Peak (he didn't summit) Forgotten, Shuksan, as well as smaller outings. And, our westie made it to the top of Pilchuck in a blizzard this spring! Max is a yellow lab-coyote cross (I think, he was a stray) and I've worried too about snowblindness. He doesn't seem to mind (well, he doesn't squint.) I asked a vet about it, he didn't know, but didn't seem very worried about it. It'd be really good to know if there was anything to worry about, and if so anything that could be done about it. Max clearly loves climbing and being on snow, but I hate to think I'm hurting his vision.

Adams Glacier trip report I did this climb with Alex Krawarik, June 30-July 1. Conditions are just about perfect, but will probably be deteriorating soon. A lot of people have been doing this route; a woman we ran into at the camp said that about eight climbers were on it on Saturday, including a couple of climbers we saw topping out around 2:00 PM. We only saw one other party of two on Sunday. We got to the Killen Creek trailhead around 11:00, and arrived at High Camp in about 2.5 hrs. The trail was snowfree until after the PC trail, and even then snow was only in patches. There is a huge number of campsites scattered around; probably a hundred people could be camped around there without impacting each other much (unless you’re like that bunch that was there hollering and shouting until midnight.) Interestingly, we ran into John Burroughs, the president of Cascade Designs, on Sunday, and he said that the Divide Creek trail starts higher and is a bit shorter access to the High Camp. The map appears to bear this out; I don’t know why everyone directs climbers to the Killen Creek trail. We left camp around 4:30 AM Sunday (Canada Day!) and were at the base of the climb in about an hour. The approach is pretty obvious, and there were boot tracks to follow, but there are a number of open crevasses on the approach; it might have the most objective danger on the climb. The glacier itself was in very good shape, very hard snow, icy towards the top. It’s a fairly constant 30-35 degree angle most of the way. It was easy to get around the obstacles on the way up. At the top are a couple of big crevasses, including a very impressive bergschrund with a 15’ thick snow bridge, but once that goes, the finish is going to be a challenge. Also, towards the top things are pretty icy, since it gets the afternoon sun there. Thanks to whoever those guys were who were on the route so late on Saturday; they left nice deep steps in the upper part of the route, which made things much easier for us. We topped out in around 6 hours; since it was my first time on Adams, I insisted on slogging the last half-mile or so to the true summit. Equipment notes: I wore my leathers and hinged crampons, which are totally unsuitable for this sort of route. In fact, I managed to get one crampon twisted sideways on my boot while sidestepping on the hard surface, something I’ve never had happen before. Alex had no problems at all with his plastic boots and aluminum crampons. We roped up, but didn’t set any pro. We just used ice axes; a second tool might have been convenient if you’re a worrier like me. We descended the North Ridge, which is in (comparatively) good shape. A number of parties had climbed it this weekend, including one group we met near the summit who’d come in to do the Lava Glacier headwall, but decided it was in bad shape (it looked pretty bad.) The N. Ridge seemed pretty twisty and crumbly, with plenty of exposure, where a slip on a loose bit of rock (and there's a LOT of loose rock!) could send you on a really long ride down onto the Lava Glacier. The route didn’t look very appealing to me, but Alex thought it might be worth doing, and there were sure a lot of people on it. Start VERY early, when everything is still frozen in place. There are several campsites near the bottom of the N. Ridge, it’d be worthwhile camping there to save some time. We descended with one party of three who’d camped at the bottom of the ridge, and they made the summit in 3 1/2 hours. [This message has been edited by Alpine Tom (edited 07-02-2001).]

I would have been a lot more impressed if he wasn't such an asshole. I'm a cyclist too, so I read the book with great hopes. First, the dust jacket claims he was only the second person to summit K2 w/o supplimenal oxygen, which is crap. Hell, of the four guys who summited in the first US climb in 78, THREE of them summited w/o oxygen. And, so much of the book is all about who lied about summiting this or that mountain --Carlos Carsolio didn't actually summit K2; Benoit Chamonix turned around 30 verital feet from the summit of Shisha Pangma, so he cheated too, everyone but Kropp cheated on Everest because they used bottled oxygen or used ropes that others had fixed, or let other people carry their gear. And, gosh, no one appreciates Kropp for being such an honest, upright guy! Everyone has their own view of "fair means" which may or may not include bottled oxygen, crampons (which were considered bad form on Rainier in the '30s) sherpas, sharing fixed ropes, and a host of other things, but it's one thing to decide for yourself that "By God, this is the way I have to do it, to be right for me" and quite another to spend half your book declaiming how your way is the only objectively fair way, and everyone else is cheating. If nothing else, he's learned so much from the climbers that have come before him, from Mallory to Hillary to Messner, and gained so much from all the high-tech climbing gear, modern weather forecasting, knowledge of high-altitude physiology and nutrition, and other advantages, that his climb has a lot more in common to Sandy Pittman's than to Mallory's. I'm the first to admit that I likely couldn't make it to the top of Everest if I was short-roped, and I will never bicycle 6000 miles to a climb and back. I certainly respect that grit and determination. But I can't respect his attitude.

Ultimate High - Goran Kropp Everyone but me cheats in their climbing, and lies about their ascents. No one appreciates me. Now I'm finished with climbing (see - here's my tick list!) I'm going to straighten out the sailing world next. [This message has been edited by Alpine Tom (edited 06-29-2001).]

quote: Originally posted by verticalswamp: One of my in-laws belong to it and regularly did the Fiji assignment. Tough duty! It's inspiring to hear of people willing to sacrifice so much for their calling.

There's a website called "On Stagnant Pond" with a flamingo that you can have them send you, and take its picture someplace scenic, and they post it on their site. I was going to take it up Mt. Rainier, but apparently you have to schedule it pretty far in advance.

On tap? Pilsner Urquel. or Maritime Pacific's dark wheat, if it's available. Bottled? Portland Brewing's McTarnahan's Scottish. Or Bridgeport. It's interesting no one's mentioned Grants, since they started the whole microbrew thing in the PNW. I don't care for their ales, though, too hoppy and kind of sour.