canyondweller

well that sums up the process a little too broadly. what you mean is they buy hookers and blow for politicians in order to buy a seat at the table. NO, I don't. Don't put words in my mouth. That is what YOU believe happens. Lobbyists are an extension of our 1st Amendment-guaranteed rights to petition our government for redress of grievances.

So, you're not going to answer the question, then?

HAhahahahahaha If it proves me wrong I call it pointless. Bwah ha ha ha ha ha 'Pointless' as in, going nowhere and swaying neither party involved, you floppy wang.

Do you belong to any environmental groups? PETA? WWF? Sierra Club? Are you a union employee? Do you have health insurance? How about auto insurance? If so, you have people in Washington speaking to legislators, on your behalf, in ways that may (or may not, to be honest) benefit you. I gladly give money to several groups in order that they use this money to convey the ideals of my like-minded colleagues to those in Congress.

About what I would expect from you. However, now that you brought them up, what is wrong with 'honor' and 'sacrifice'? You Lefties preach individual sacrifice for the good of the collective. How is a soldier's willingness to sacrifice any different? Further, how is 'honor' now a bad word?

No, he says Liberalism is a 'mental disorder;' Get it right.

That is contrary to what I read...I'll have to dig (If I realize I give a shit about this pointless argument).

This is an urban legend, and a lie.

Where do you get this stuff? You know I'm right.

Someone with no clear adherence to virtue, claiming moral outrage as a reason to run away, seems a little hypocritical.

This whole "practice fall" idea is nonsensical. Learn to place good pro, study better climbers than yourself, read, etc. Go aid climb something easy; you'll see up close what a cam/nut/tricam does as you apply a load to it. Then you don't have to worry about it.

Actually, to be correct, the Soviet Union was pushing hard for the U.S. to open a second front moreso that England was begging for anything. On another note, all you Lefties are so big on 'women's rights.' How can you be against the liberation of Afghani and Iraqi women? Women in these countries can now vote!!! Why isn't Betty Freidan (bitch) doing cartwheels around the White House? I guess 'Women's Lib' only applies to American women.

That's just silly. Yeah, after reading them again, I think you could make a case that the US military fits all ten. Thanks. You could, but not based on any foundation of reason or logic. I, however, could not since I would be employing both reason and logic.

That's just silly.

He doesn't get to choose the consequences; those are already laid out in the contract he signed.

I disagree, mattp. I think the question here is, did he violate his oath, which he freely took, when he signed up? It's as simple as that. A secondary question is, to address your other thoughts, did he act upon his convictions within the framework of the agreement he signed? Or, did he just run away without informing his superiors (which it sounds like he did). "Manliness" has nothing to do with it...actually, I think you are on to something. A grown man, or to say a mature adult, would understand that actions have consequences and breaking commitments/contracts has ramifications. He clearly understood neither of these, and chose to act like a child (i.e., run away and hide). So, yes, the "manly" or adult thing would be to stand by his convictions, come what may.

After reading your swill, it's obvious that truth has no meaning to you regardless of the conflict in which we are engaged. Carry on with your delusion.

This argument always gets trotted out during these discussions. Look, this kid could have gone about this in an entirely correct way. He chose not to do that. There are consequences (of which he is fully aware, I am sure) related to how he chose to exit himself from his commitment. I don't really think that the "Nuremberg principles" apply, here, anyway.

He made a commitment, he should honor it. He wasn't joining the Peace Corps, for pity's sake. Apparently, his morals don't have anything to do with personal responsibility, honor, respect, commitment, or sacrifice; if they did, he would return to the U.S. and accept the consequences of his actions. I believe there is a specific way to obtain 'conscientious objector' status; obviously, he wasn't smart enough to ask how to do that. Can anyone comment on that?

Huh, I thought using old tires to make clinker for cement was a pretty good way to keep tires out of the waste stream.

Or, maybe because the LaFarge cement plant creates jobs and because this city needs concrete, which requires cement. Gee, concrete requires cement? Who woulda thought.. I call BS in your general direction.. You think maybe there have been some advances in production methods and stack emissions reducing technology in the years since the Lafarge plant began spewing out dioxin all over the Duwamish valley populations? Its not a question of "jobs vs clean air", it's a question of usually lazy, short sighted, greedy people in positions of power (whether private or public) actually caring (or not?) enough to do something helpful for people who -for mostly economic reasons- are too easily brushed aside. In other words, do they want to bother, do they want to spend a little to benefit some folks who they could really just ignore? No one says you have to have jobs at the expense of our health anymore -unless youre still stuck in the 1930's- you can have both. But whats a few hundred cancer deaths per year as long as we can fool ourselves with the thought that we're keeping the trains running on time or some other out dated slogan.. So, you are weaving some emotionally-charged hatred for LaFarge, without even the slightest bit of evidence that their operation violates mandated industrial emissions requirements? That's bright. If any of you treehuggers really cared about this "carbon footprint" crap, you wouldn't be singing the praises of the Toyota Prius (and it's ilk). The "carbon footprint" on those cars are worse than most.

Or, maybe because the LaFarge cement plant creates jobs and because this city needs concrete, which requires cement.

Yup...watching the little one.

can we instead make tasteless black jokes? I'm in.

I'm guessing Naveed has an "accident", in the not too distant future.