el jefe

you two should be more worried about a tax on posts to cc.com. with almost 12,000 posts between you, an appropriately scaled tax would effectively wipe out the federal deficit. $0.20/pint doesn't sound like too much.

pdxers talk about bolts like 13 yr old boys talk about boobs too true!

there's the voice of youth and inexperience passing judgment on the world. in 1990 i broke my ankle quite badly and spent the next 14 weeks on crutches, nonweightbearing. my orthopedist told me to expect to end up having the joint fused but i was very, very lucky and had a good recovery with full range of motion in the joint, etc. my view is that everyone decides for himself or herself what risk is acceptable or not and it certainly isn't my place to pass judgment on what another person is willing to risk.

got a response from katie dunham that was blah blah boilerplate -- the email equivalent of hiding under your desk and pretending to be out of the office.

'The belayer, Tom, told me they had researched the issue and decided to drill a "practice aid route" in that location' this thread makes me wonder what sort of 'research' these guys actually did. based upon the tenor of this discussion, i'd say they had insufficient data to support their opinion that this "practice aid route" would be okay with the local climbing community. if their bolts are gone when they go back to 'send' their project, then maybe they will be able to draw the correct conclusion.

emails sent to the above addresses. it looks, however, like these people are indifferent to input they receive from the public. calling this a "slap in the face" is putting it mildly to say the least!

Funny you mention "questionable ethics" as an argument against an aid ladder as a few sport routes out there sport chipped holds. But yeah: likely many much better places for an aid ladder. not sure i understand your point, john. just because ethically questionable practices have occurred in the past doesn't mean that anything anyone wants to do is now okay. sounds like a stupid route put up by stupid people.

where do you live, tvash? i'm afraid there are a lot of billcoes out there packing heat and having no clue, so unless you are living on the moon...

john, you make a lot of sense, but from what i've seen, making sense isn't of much value where these beacon quibbles are concerned.

nice work guys. looks like ivan came up with a new plan after all -- i.e., climbing hood on a sunny day seems so much more logical to me somehow...

it's a walk off. leave it as it is.

ivan as "backwards warrior"? that somehow makes a lot of sense...

that "24 hours and/or getting more than 80 miles or so away from pdx" is what limits you. for example, i went to smith for the day on saturday and conditions were perfect. drive a little farther and find something dry...

mt hood and beacon rock in the rain -- time to come up with a new plan, ivan.

i think there are some pictures at mountain project website: http://www.mountainproject.com/v/oregon/petes_pile/lost_dog_wall/106228801

thanks, john. see you on the 9th.

12/9 after 5pm shouldn't be a problem -- where do you want to meet?

how late in the evening are we thinking? i'm free either 12/9 after 4-5pm. i think i'm busy carpooling the kids the evening of 12/10 but will check this evening when i get home and let you know.

the great windbag b.j. o'jerk -- who gives a fuck what that demented asswipe has to say about anything...

had one pair of mariachers back then. too narrow in the toe for me, i preferred the way fires fit me better. shoes have certainly improved immensely.

an interesting post and i agree with you, the republicans until now have been at best an uneasy coalition of groups that was held together by overlapping fears rather than by some positive idea or philosophy. it will be interesting to see where they go from here. i just enjoyed watching how their usual attacks were so easily and deftly turned aside by obama. hopefully they will become a party that stands for something rather than a party that stands against a bunch of things, but you are probably right that it is going to get pretty ugly first

i don't know if it is hate that motivates these people, but mccain's resounding defeat has left the repubs in disarray. the old fear and smear, veiled racist thing didn't work this time and, in addition, in the aftermath they are left with no clear leader or favorite for next time. mccain is already 72 and unlikely to try again in 2012. by virtue of having been nominated for veep, palin was elevated to a position of prominence in the party. apparently some people don't want her out in front. i think the jockeying for position was underway before the actual election and will continue for some time. things are just getting started.

per today's NYT article: "The tensions were described in interviews with top aides to the two campaigns who spoke on the condition of anonymity because they did not want to be seen as disloyal to Mr. McCain’s effort at a difficult time." sounds like this is from the top people, not the ones at "the bottom of the ranks". also, i don't remember other tickets bickering so openly or so soon after the election. whether palin has a future in national politics is certainly an open question, but at the same time i think there are clearly some influential repub operatives who definitely want to make sure she doesn't.

it is very interesting that the mccain people have been so quick to talk about palin in such a negative way. clearly they don't want her to be in a position of prominence in the party. to some extent this might just be the usual finger-pointing (i.e., "she's the reason we lost"), but somehow it feels like there is more to it than that. there seems to be a concerted effort to marginalize her. as for billcoe's opus above, i'm going to have to wait for it to be translated into english. an abridged form would be nice, too.

peter, why should anyone care what this apologist for the catholic church has to say?