i_like_sun

While it's true that lipids do not enter into glycolysis, that's irrelevant. Aerobic energy is generated from Acetyl-CoA, which is produced just as readily from fats as from sugars. Second, Acetyl-CoA produced from the breakdown of fats can enter gluconeogenesis to produce glucose (say for your brain). Thus there is technically nothing wrong with burning large amounts of fat for energy. It just has to be aerobic (very low intensity), and importantly, it takes a lot more molar equivalents of water to metabolize lipids than it does sugars. Burning protein/amino acids for energy is another story. If you want to avoid this you will have to move way more slowly, eat frequently but not too heavily, and drink a lot more. Easier said than done. This intensity thing is what I was trying to get at. If an athlete is not working out intensely, the stress response required for growth and neural adaptation won't ever be reached! (Don't even get me rolling on the endocrine system's role in this) The so called "fat burning zone" is a bunch of bullshit. In order to get stronger and faster, gain muscle, and lose fat, we need to workout as hard as possible. What you said about Acetyl-CoA being as easily produced from lipids as sugars is right on, I believe the difference is in the speed that this can happen however. Stored carbohydrate enables the generation of very FAST energy via glycolosis, and thus enabling the body to exercise MORE INTENSELY (anaerobic). The greater the intensity, the greater the energy demand, and the greater the calories burned. In order to keep the brain happy and avoid muscle loss, the actual catabolism of your stored fat reserves should happen HOURS after you exercise, not so much during. This is where I was trying to explain how the "fat burning zone" is such a lie. Low intensity exercise (while it is great for recovery and rehab) simply does not elicit the physiological adaption that high intensity exercise does. Sure you are burning mostly fat at low intensities, but your total calories burned are really low. The only time that you should be in this "fat burning zone", is in between exercise sessions. Eat carbs to exercise harder and become harder.

Hehehehehehe, steroids are COOOOOOOL!

34 BABY! "to hell with morals!" Screw it, we all know anout those shitty little kids!

Doesn't that give you the shits?

"Sometimes I feel like I'm not hard enough when I'm munching all kinds of gels and snacks and hydrating during a climb and a partner is barely taking anything in and gets kind of sullen towards the end of the day... " How does eating more make you feel "not hard enough"? Ask any woman, and I'd bet she'd say that a true hard man eats A LOT! C'mon dude, you'll just have bigger and harder muscles than your starving sullen pal. STARVATION IS NOT ATTRACTIVE.

Winston Churchill is my hero!

KK man knows what he's talking about.

Taking time off sucks.

Feels like taking a strong hit of acid! Its almost like being in a loopy as crap dream state where everything looks and feels like paint! Sleep deprivation and loud music are an incredible drug......

"or something your doing wrong in your exercises." Ha Ha, yeah, my kind of bike riding is a little, um, different than the average/smarter than me Joe. I was riding BMX and was doing a 180 over a little six foot gap, and ended up putting my foot down like a hundred times before I actually pulled it. Basically pounded the crap out of it. This of course is right after a long weekend of snowboarding, and doing some full squats in the gym last week. I'm relaxing a little more tonight, and think whats going on is inflamation of my Plica, and/or irritation of the infrapatellar tissue. I think the "weirdness" in my knee is to do with the joint capsule having more fluid in it because of inflamation, and increasing the joint pressure - which changes the way everything is sliding around. I had the Lockman test done, and my knee is still super tight - meaning my ACL is in all likelyhood just fine, thank god. I'm still a worrier none the less!

And yer a redneck.

Finally a jackass that rambles as badly as I do.

Need an ergonomics specialist?

No. No pop. I did have two dislocations of my patella a couple years ago (after jumping off a cliff on my snowboard and landing in a hole - I'm not genetically predisposed to this) and it was decided that I tore my MCL and [possibly] sprained my ACL. Since then, my left knee has not been the same - I occasionally get this infrapatellar pain. Basically I've had ZERO problems with it for 2 years. Now I'm freaking out.

NOOOOOOOOOO SHIT!

Sometimes, yes. I need crack. You have some?

Fat is still a fantastic energy source for those days. Peanut butter is rad. One thing I've been doing is packing in tortillas: They are flat and light, and are loaded with calories. Just tear off a chunk, squish into peanut butter, and voila. Eating more on those big days will save you from the ravages of crashing.

We are still all homosapien. It doesn't matter.

I think it is rediculous to say "humans have reached the terminal end of their evolution", because these processes never stop. There are infinate ways we could go; just look at how many species of apes there are (because this is not a religious debate)! We shared an ancestor with ALL OF THEM. It seems practical that hundreds of thousands of years from now, humans may have split up into more than one specie, or been nearly killed off [again] by some global catastrophy. My point is, we don't know, and it is stupid to try and [CONTROL] these forces.

Yeah, you and Hitler have a lot in common.

So, I was riding my bike the other day, and ended up putting my foot down super hard, and now my left knee feels all funky. It doesn't feel like my collateral ligaments, more like cruciate "deep funkyness" and I've got a bit of infrapatellar pain. My joint capsule also seems to have some fluid build up, so there is definately something going on in there. It doesn't exactly hurt, it just feels weird. I tend to be paranoid, so of course I'm worried about ACL stuff. Any PT's or Mike Laytons have any calming thoughts?

Dude, always exercising in ketosis is going to limit your athletic progress. Its true that fats have WAY more energy than carbs, but lipids cannot enter glycolosis, thus you are creating carbohydrates FROM your muscles. Think about this seriously for a second, carbs are by far the preferred energy source for your cells. Your brain will do anything to get carbs, so it will either create sugar cravings, or catabolize your muscle tissue into ketone bodies and GLUCOSE. Thats right, muscle will turn into glucose if you don't eat enough carbohydrate. Sure you're burning some fat, but you are killing muscle and thus killing your calorie burning capacity. Also, by restricting your carbs, you are you training your body to store more fat (are Eskimos all lean?). Your thyroid down regulates, and cellular enzymes adapt to aide in fat storage. ALSO, you are limiting anabolic hormone release, such as insulin, IGF-1, and growth hormone - thus you are not building as much muscle as you could be. Stop being a dumb ass.

Sounds like you are doing the right stuff. I seem to get all sorts of screwy looks when I work out - I'm always balancing on this, jumping onto that, and standing one legged while lifting this. I try to do exercises that mimic my shit as closesly as possible. As for gaining muscle, dude, I'm right there with you! The extra strength and boosted metabolic rate go a long way towards general health - and a fun time when you pass a mirror. In the past two years I've gone from a skinny 155-160 to a lean 175-178. I'm not too worried about gaining some weight right now because I know I'm gaining a lot of muscle mass, and when spring comes around climbing will peel off any fat I have in a heart beat. As for training, have you ever tried any speed/power workouts? The literature says that athletes should varry workouts between 30% and 100% of their 1RM. When you dedicate a workout to building maximum speed and power, try lowering your weight to that 30% spot, and lift it as fast as possible. IT WORKS. You'll still kick your ass. Just make sure the exercise is appropriate - ie. explosive jump squats, NOT explosive leg press.

You see, those Brits are always on the ball! Plus, after exercise its SOOOO much easier to get shit faced, therefore you SAVE $$$$. There, perfect excuse to get blasted after every workout. I'm in.

Given that I only do one set till burn, what's the upside/downside of working the same muscle group 3 times a week instead of only 2? I've read 48 to 72 hour recovery time minimum, so I went with 48, with a 72 hour rest once a week. I split my body into 3 parts for working out: biceps/triceps chest/back legs/shoulders It works out great this way - can in theory go 6 days on, 1 day off when I am not climbing. Otherwise, I try to go 3 on, 1 off. However I have dropped the legs in lieu of more card the last 2 years, and in general rarely do more than 4 weight-training days a week, so the breakdown isn't as useful as it once was. Hey guys, when during climbing or any daily task do you JUST work "biceps/triceps" or "chest/back" or "legs/shoulders"? The answer is, YOU DON'T. All of the research on strength development in humans shows that neural adaptations account for nearly ALL strength gains. Muscle hypertrophy is only a very, very small aspect of the whole strength equation. In order to get stronger in an activity like rock climbing, you must train in ways that mimic that activity as closely as possible (this is why climbing is the best training for climbing). Training like a body builder WILL NOT make you a better climber. Also, in terms of this grip strength thing, why not focus on the bigger picture? Seriously, just training your hand flexors isn't going to get you shit. If you want freaky grip strength, forget squeezing Play-Doh for hours, lift some heavy ass stuff! Do hang-cleans, squats, weighted pull-ups, bent over rows, ROCK CLIMB, bench presses etc... Even go to the beach and practice picking up the biggest and heaviest rock you can find. Where I'm going with this, is that the research shows that all this isolation stuff is a waste of time and money. General exercise is best.