StevenSeagal

What happened, you ask? Depends... Anyway...let's start a new thread with the same title. I'll begin:

Why, is something worrying you? baa

Amen. That's why I live for weekends!

Exactly.

What scares you so much? I'm not trying to compel you to do anything, Jay. We're just talking here. I don't pretend to know what any "ideal" society looks like. But I think it's fair to attempt to observe what it does not look like. And again, why do you insist that merely talking about such things equates to a desire by the speaker to see government impose the solution? I see government, and our relationship to it, as one of our many problems . Discussion, dialogue, observations, questions...what else is there? There you go again- assuming an external entity (i.e. government, etc.) must be the speaker's solution! Beyond a suggestion- through dialogue- that our human problems are largely borne from a lack of self understanding and that an earnest effort by each individual to undertake that in themselves- if they so choose- may have far more value than creating new systems and organizations or GOVERNMENTS to solve our problems for us. In short: Personal initiative and responsibility, if that wasn't clear. Ditch the ideals and utopias or assumptions of such. They have no basis in reality.

Consider the above critique in context with one of the most lucrative industries in this country, arguably in the world: Porn. Substantial energy from religious and social conservatives worldwide goes into fighting this industry on the basis of "morality". One could further apply some personal version of morality to, say, alcohol...cigarettes...appliances...music...cars (Amish for example)...anything that intrudes on someone's version of simplicity, morality, what have you. So it seems that marketing is a big business because IT WORKS. It's a business of persuasion, of convincing people they need something, of altering their perspectives and values. When someone overindulges we blame the person who was persuaded for not being responsible. Unless, of course, the marketing was for something deemed "immoral" or unnecessary- but the latter qualities are more often than not matters of personal opinion. Comments?

Americans are extremely generous with their time and money. To characterize them as a monolithic, uniform, egocentric block is unjust and just plain wrong. Actually K, to suggest that Americans intrinsically are ANY MORE OR ANY LESS egocentric than the members of any other culture is unjust and just plain wrong. American culture, however, is another story- the freedom we love so much also creates a new problem; the culture of "freedom"- coupled with the lacking of any earnest understanding of, or inclination to understand, the ways of the self- has also inadvertantly sanctified and encouraged self-centeredness and self-absorption, while simultaneously making it difficult if not impossible to observe with humility our own actions and selves. Organized religion, communism, and other forms of so-called "structure" attempt to "correct" our behavior, but just the same, they fail miserably because they also are borne from egotism, self-centeredness and an desire to control everything. Understanding these issues are mankind's big challenge, not which system of thought, government, religion, or structure to impose. This grand experiment in social, political, and religious freedom which the founding fathers undertook in creating this country is surely a great step forward; but simply giving everyone the freedom to do whatever they want is far from the end game of human development.

The hell with that. Where's my f'in welfare check?!?!?

I guess my main observation would be that if American culture ever manages to move beyond "ME" , while retaining all it's social freedoms and opportunities- then that would be something entirely new. You could say the same of all cultures in fact.

You just don't get it- you NEED the 160 GB iPod. YOU NEED IT.

I don't hate. I'm Out for Justice.

Again - who gets the blame for this? There are only so many capitalist titans in our society, their wants are limited, and their aggregate demand for goods and services are quite limited relative to that generated by the average worker. To cap the irony, most of them have made their fortunes by catering to the wants and desires of the NASCAR or McMansion sets more efficiently than any other participant in the marketplace. You can blame them for the gaudy fixtures in their Hamptons beach retreat, but not the Velvet Elvis poster above the Lazy-Boy recliner anchored in front of the flat-screen showing the latest UFC fight. So is my description of the culture accurate- bored, distracted, self-absorbed? Or I am totally off base? Would it be fair to say those providing the goods and services, and those consuming them, are both really doing the same thing- immersing themselves in desire and acquisition?

and of course you exclude yourself from this milieu, having transcended it with you revelations and awareness? Exactly where did I exclude myself? I assume, then, by your tone, that you completely disagree with what was stated above? Or it disturbed you, so you choose to attack the speaker instead of addressing the points?

To say nothing of the positive or negative aspects of living in American culture, one thing that is overwhelmingly telling about American culture is the pervasively ignorant attitude that living in any other country would be absolutely miserable by comparison to living here; moreover, that the subjects in those countries either a) Are miserable and wished they lived here, or b) if they profess to be content in their lives, they are just blissfully ignorant of what they are missing by not living here. Anyone who has traveled much, and while doing so has paid the slightest interest to the lives of the people they've encountered, can not possibly hold such a view as binding and all encompassing. No one can deny that the standard of living and opportunies that exist in the US are generous by any measure. Yet I sympathize heavily with what Prole is driving at, which is that the standard of living here is also producing a lazy, bored, distracted culture that has lost the ability to distinguish between need and want, and which also has no real appreciation of the standard of living and opportunities it enjoys, because it's gotten to where "suffering" in this culture means you can't afford to upgrade your ipod to the 160GB model instead of the Nano. You can trumpet the positivity of free market capitalism all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that the hyper-consumerist culture it has produced here is one that is shallow, escapist, distracted, and self-absorbed. And you wonder why "family values" have faded?

OH NO THEY DON'T! IT'S IMPORTANT THAT YOU BE AFRAID OF TERRORISTS AND FEEL HELPLESS! THEN YOU WILL LOOK TO YOUR GOVERNMENT TO SAVE YOU AND KEEP YOU SAFE! MOST IMPORTANT, DON'T IMAGINE THAT BUILDING A BETTER SOCIETY INVOLVES PROACTIVE OPTIMISM, OR ESPECIALLY ACTIVE PARTICIPATION, ON YOUR PART! THERE IS NO "WE" IN TEAM! CHANGE IS FOR DREAMY IDEALISTS! GET WITH REALITY AND ACCEPT HOW SHITTY LIFE IS AND THAT THE GOVERNMENT WILL TRY TO MAKE IT LESS SHITTY BUT THEY ARE THE ONLY HOPE SO BOW YOUR HEADS AND SALUTE NOW AND STOP ASKING QUESTIONS AND GET BACK TO WORK!

Obama sounds so...optimistic. Fuck that shit. I want someone to tell me to be SCARED, and WHAT to be scared of.

Maybe. A lot of things changed after 'Nam, let me tell you.

Bob has a wife? Now that's some salacious gossip! I didn't know it was legal to marry sheep in Washington. They're "domestic partners", actually...

Yep, Nixon, that benchmark of integrity, public service, and doing what's "good for the nation"! SAYONARA MOTHERFUCKERS!!!

Anyone notice this recent bill on the marquee of the "Lusty Lady": "VENI, VIDI, VENI" ...not that I was there or anything...

No one's mentioned this yet:

MAKE 2 FORUMS: ONE FOR "LIBTARDS", THE OTHER FOR "AMERICANS". THAT SHOULD KEEP THINGS SMOOTH!

I JUST LOGGED ON SO I COULD MASTURBATE TO THIS IMPORTANT THREAD.

Anyone see this: Megalomania , Etc I especially like this: Indeed, after sucking Bush's cock for 7 years, Rush wouldn't want to be viewed as some toadie.