crazedmaniac

so the "engineers" took responsibility for those routes in yellow??? did you run into them??

hey chris... i have some 'all-most the same' pics, taken from the same places as some of yours.. esp. on 'your' pitch 5 with same cam placement (friends,hue banners,tho) in almost same place!!! and of course the top... used to take first timers up on the crack on (your#3) for their first layback ever. Some got hooked right there on that pitch. There used to be a really tough cedar growing in the crack between the climber, darel, and the photographer, where there is now just grass...in that pic. guess it wasnt that tough. We used to solo free climb up that in the dark, then tie the ropes off and rap back down to camp, called Zephyr ledge. Really cool story how it got that name. was late 80,s, and early 09,s tho... guess you saw a few of my 1/4" and 3/16 bolts there too. (mostly to the right) they are 'scattered' all around that area... just looking at your last 2 pics..my palms started to sweat..massively, cause i will never forget running that one out... I never climb w/chalk..thats aid to me.(and another long story) the 'crakling corner', as you called it... is right at the top,(i usually went to the right after that... you musta went left...?) i also climbed on the cool heads to the right of that 'crack' corner, and the corner itself. It had huge amounts of vegetation in those cracks then...?? A german climber (andy??) ran that one out and he said it was one of the funnest climbs pitches he had done.(and he had climbed all over the world!!) He could do 3 consecutive, 2 finger ONLY, one arm pull ups... i loved being these kinda guys belay slave.... I felt safe with them. I think you might have some of the pics reversed/out of order?? might want to double check that??? tried to post a 'report' here, on the learning curve.... dug out some pics too... now to get the scanner working... SWEEEEET!!! DO you have bolts at belays? (50m ropes?) AND below, and on, the long smooth rock sections with no real places for any pro?? (even bashiees) Last time i went back up there, i couldn't climb/lead out like i used too.. looking at a 100+ ft dangerous fall, (we had to bail, no one else could lead it either, and i used to do it with 30-40 lbs of gear on, and now we 1/2 that, and way older, and missing the European guys) and i cried, like a baby, and Ken said,"yea, i told you, you were super bold, had no fear, and stupid". THANKS Chris... i cant wait to get back up there!!! duh!

i was really hoping that more climbers were going to ..chime.. vent on in here, as a result of my reply/post ... or, my reply to "genepires". I know there are others who feel the same way about me. ... I actually thought 'it' was sending/posting, only to genepires, aka, for his eyes only, cause it seems, that might have happened in the past here. Perhaps, ive got this site mixed up with another one. When i read ... "stir the pot with this", i dont feel so bad about it now. I love to stir the pot, its good to mix things up, simmer and mellow. Get it out in the open. put it on the flame. It is usually over here-say too. Well, here is the horses mouth!!! ...one of the things I KNOW i dont have mixed up, is what has happened up on squire wall, as that place is a, 'sacred' place to me. And, i share story's about that place. I love to share story's, and things that have happened to me. i ONLY talk about what has happened to me, things i saw/read, felt and hear. I have learned that to say what some one else heard, or to repeat what someone else heard someone else say, doesn't work, and can be miss-con-screwd! I do consciousnessly live in the present. history is a big subject to me, as knowing more history, can tell me so much more, about.. the future. Plus, i am a function of the past. I really am a, information junkie. One of my nicks, givin to me by the same person who called me..."zippy", up on zips' wall, is... IGICU. "" eia-cha-cue"" ( Information Gathering Iconoclast Carbon Unit.) ... I have really done NOTHING to advance other climbers, on squire walls! (the stuff that i did, that could have... fixed lines and the twin cables across the creek, WERE all sabotaged, with i feel, directly aimed at me, to cause me bodily harm, What a stupid thing todo, cause it is non-discriminate!) In fact, im sure i have done quite the opposite. (aka, sucker routes) The rap routes are a descent, not advancement. All tho, to keep in balance,i have taken about 80 different climbers up there, for their first time on squire creek wall. Many, for their VERY first time climbing. A large percent, it was the first time climbing on real rock,... some, ...placing pro. on lead. A few, pounding in their first piton, some, having their first 'real' fall, and many, catching their first 'real' fall (me). A few did a "first accent" with me, without even knowing it, at first. Was always fun to tell them that they were the first one thru...there. There has been, a memorable first, for just about every one i have taken up there. ....Thanks for your post "RAD", cause it forced me to go back and read what i wrote, and i will be sure to post this, after i have read this, Which IS a post/answer/reply, to many above posts. I dont' intend this to be a "flame", ( ya, i am old school) and is not written that way. I sincerely apologize in advance if you see it that way. "FLAME-ING" is way to easy for me. I like to take the ..more difficult way. You are not alone to make such judgments about me, without even meeting me, (alltho, i think that might reinforce what you already believe about me) or, trying to understand me. I dont see how i "shitting on another man's dream" , in what i wrote, but can guess, in how/what you read, you have certain feelings about what you thought i was ..saying. Was not at all. I do know this area well, ( i could post a pic. with lines and dates all over the place, and for some already, would be a great disappointment and take away their 'feelings') and i might have climbed several parts of "his route" here, with a swiss climber, back in the 80,s. this is One of the reasons i said, what i..wrote, ... to "genepires. When i came back 'here', and saw that this had posted to 'here', like this, i felt instantly 'bad' about doing so on his post about his efforts here. Only because, i feel like 'he' would not have done this route, if the tough cedar trees had still been there. to go around these, involves a lot of traversing and more slab climbing, that has dropped a lot of climbers out from doing so in the past. IM not talking about... some 'branches or limbs". I was talking about trees that were older than me. Growing in a place that took a lot of time to start, and develop, as they get pounded and trashed by mother nature every year, over and over again, at the base of a huge chunk of rock. Thats why they are/were so tough and strong. Bent and twisted. they are/were AS old as some of the 100+ft firs and cedars that are growing here on "my property", i pay taxes on, and i feel, i am responsible for, and DO HAVE owner ship over. It is the way i feel. I dont feel that way about the wilderness, the mountains, parks, and "public" places. AND, i was sharing my feelings, not an easy thing for me todo, as those who have heard me speak ..."in public" can tell ya. I don't like to do that, but one of my most memorable/magic times, was speaking to a graduating climbing class, with the late Dallas Cloke (and another 'famous, well traveled' climber). I only cried a few times, but it was a real treat for me. ( it was held in a college math class, and i got to use as an example/explanation, a 'poster/chart/formula, on the walls, for every question i was asked). ... So, as long as I'm ... "spewing shit", and your talking "tree branches", and "tree limbs", let me, please, tell you about the bolted 2x4,s to the 'rock'. IT IS one of the things i truly feel "bad" about, that happened up on Squire Wall. And, have learned.. alot, about speaking to others, and... doing what you all seem to be, telling me here. (about my life, and what todo, and, ...) ...I am 'assumein' you ALL are talking about the ones that are in the little gully, just above the slabs, directly above big tree, about 200ft of travel, not elevation. When those 2x4,s were put in there, the place was not at all like it is now. Even the area called big tree, is named for a tree that isn't even there now. It was a huge cedar, im guessing about 1,500yrs old. Gone, literally stripped away, by the force generated by Squire Wall. It used to be the way thru there, down in the muddy gully, (that got replenished with fresh mudd every spring) as the branches were very thick there, and my fixed lines in this area, disappeared every year. I have gone back to the squire walls every year now since 1986, and the first time was in the early 70,s. It was way different then, and only by going back and being aware of stuff, in the present, i could see so much change. As a result, i used to take a different way up, and usually down, (down, usually not being by choice). The "engineers" as i called them, were busy building the trail up thru the woods, from the parking lot, to big tree, and i eventually ran onto it. I still didnt take all the trail, as i felt going thru the woods without a trail added to my wilderness experience. There were some places we did the same, cause of the devils club. And you couldn't tell where we were going, as we really did do with purposefulness. The last 1,000 ft tho, (below big tree) became a, this is where you go, cause of the terrain. I loved how you COULD go on this part of the trail, and really not seem like a trail, as it was still wild. the branches would part easily and were of NO problems. This area could sustain high traffic, because of the deep water shed, logs, and rocks and ramps. I loved the feel of the branches rubbing across my body. The hidden 'doors', that would just part for you! They seemed to be talking to me, telling me about the others that had done the same earlier. What i didnt know, was they were not done 'building' up there, on this last part. We had talked about the area of mudd in the first gully, above the first slab,s, many times. Waht do to about it, and how. They asked me not to brush out the trail to the parking lot, and, just below big tree, where it used to go back into the woods. I told them i would never cut live conifer or blueberry bushes down or shape them to my desires. It was a 'wilderness' anyway. (not technically yet tho). When i saw that they cut one of my favorite cedars down, and a well producing blueberry bush, that put out the best berry's,... i just came unglued. Then they started to 'build/finish the trail' at the top, below big tree. When i ran into them after that, i let them know how upset i was about what they were doing up there. I gave them a verbal tongue lashing like they never had. The words just flowed, like my public lectures. About the tree trimming and Where they placed bolts. I even brought up their 2x4,s. Being the certified, registered, structural engineers they were, designing huge buildings, i felt i had that right to trash their .. efforts. Especially the 2x4,s bolted with a single bolt in the middle. Treated wood. And i did. I gave them a 'flaming' they will never forget! Like i said above, i now feel really 'bad' about that. I truly do. Its upsetting to me. I begg for their forgiveness. I have tears in my eyes now typing this. ask any one who has received the wrath of angry zip. It aint pretty. They NEVER came back to climb on the big squire walls after that. (they did go around to climb up 'chicken shit gully' (their name for it) so they could get to the top easily and fast, anyway. that was their goal). It WAS NOT MY PLACE, to vent, on them, how i felt about that, and what they did. It was one of the stupid things i have done up on squire. AND I HAVE DONE A LOT OF STUPID THINGS UP THERE! I think about it all the time. I have learned from doing so. I am so sorry about how i treated them, even if it was only for less than an hr. And, it was only them, my son, and i. There was not anyone else around. ... and the barrels of spewing shit??? I could go on and on...about that too.. All my "barrells" are clearly marked as..'mine',altho it is meaning-less to others. i have lost much gear to others who felt like it was THERE for the taking. about $500+ worth, (they took only cams & light weight biners) or then, equivalent to about 2 weeks of my time. (running a 'climbing gear store', i lost a lot to theft, which is the "equivalent", some years i worked for...'free' as a result). They know who they are, and i know it too. There are about 6 or 7, maybe more, different people that have..Buckets (or barrells?) "up there." I used to get upset about it, not any more. I even didn't like seeing DJ's gear and sleeping bag moving down the rock to its 'final'? resting spot. I now see it as a "art-a-fact." I would be upset about someone taking ALL my stored water, BEcause they came/come ill prepared, but there is food and water stored there for anyone to use in an emergency.It is clearly stated so. I have been saved by having this place to ride out a storm many times. One time it turned into days. I was not impressed that someone felt it their duty to trash the place, and spread stuff out, destroying it. Taking my knife to partially cut fixed lines at the top, was a real bummer. Leaving the knife stuck so i could see it, by the top of the almost cut line? ? ... that was scary. some of that is still there for them, to take care of. I am a firm believer in karma. I have MANY storys to prove that, to me.... its all about the odds! Would love to meet you (?) Shapp, and have you take me on one of your routes there! I'm sure i will run into you up there some time soon. I look forward to it! hope its over a camp fire, with good whiskey and plenty of mother nature! thanks for your words Tyson! they are much appreciated. ... now rap bolting... I'll save that for another time!!!! (im sure i made no mention of that! yet.)

well, that would depend on 'what' you consider a..."route". Along with several of my friends and a few 'clients' we have gone up the wall about 5 or 6 different ways. (sometimes crossing, zip zaging, over all of these 4 routes) 3 of those ways we have put in bolts, all on lead. some for the future, so we could go back without gear, only draws. I have spent about 40 days (all added up) on this wall, and about a doz. nights, making it 'one of' the least walls i,ve climbed on, on the super large "squire creek wall". The wall has plenty of features so you can travel without placing bolts, if you can handle 50+ ft long run-outs (and some doing so on marginal placed gear, (loose unstable flakes, that a 'friend' would expand/move the rock)) Some of the very first bolted routes were put up on this wall, back in the early 80,s). Ken Strong ( the 'gear rustler', and part mountain goat)and i both have had serious close calls with death, on this wall, both with super magical that odds said, "outside intervention" saved our sorry asses. Many features on this wall end with .. "of death", named by Smedley. He has named many of my routes on squire, as i dont really care to name routes,(or, better, put in routes, cause 80+% of the time, i was just exploring) and we only started doing so, so we would know 'where' the other was talking about. "Illusion wall" started to take hold because i was always calling it a huge illusion, a result of looking at it from down below, and then looking down, from way up on it. Im glad it became the Illusion wall, as it fits, (unlike... chris's wall, that i changed to zippys wall, about 17 yrs ago). The access to the wall has changed greatly with the removal of all the super old cedar at the base of the route, making a trail to this wall, ( that lately has become a trail of bolts/routes) that now takes mear mins. , when in the past took more than an hr. I cried when i saw the new trails, and my daughter,who was with me, said it was the most she had ever heard me "cuss and swear". After trashing thru the brush to get to Illusion wall (till i found a "better way"), i had become quite intimate with these super old well established cedars. So, ones mans new super hiway, and most who just want to get in and "do a route" will find the removal of said trees a very welcoming thing, others will see quite the opposite. I have removed more loose rocks with super delight off this wall, (in numbers, not weight)speeding mother nature along. i enjoy watching the rocks fall, and the smell of the super fine "quarts die right" rock rubbing itself violently together. I also would not want to be below em, when they decided to depart. I would guess that i have personally moved over 5,000 lbs of rock that was "READY TO GO" off this wall, in advance, because i was going to spend more time on this wall in the future, that never happened. I did see it become a 'sport route type' climb (ACCESS and HEIGHT), but im guessing now that most of squire will become just that. I hope that zips wall (esp. the north end of it)and 'dinking around' slabs, doesn't become a 'sport climbing' wall, (more of a true mountain climb )but every-time i go back there, i see at least 10 new bolts where i have cruised right by many, many times before without. im just an old school guy, full of illusions, and have fully enjoyed spending about a full yr of days on the squire walls, and more than a 100 nights, in the wild-ness of Squire Creek Wall. I would not enjoy seeing this become another 'town wall'.... but, ... Its all an Illusion, and certainly, not MY rock, as others seem to believe, thats how i feel. In short, there a a certain type of feeling that comes with the 'feeling' or, Illusion, that says... "i feel like im the first person to come thru here", and i would hope that WE can leave some places here, so others can feel this feeling.... or Illusion. AS matt says... im "the king of rant".... It is also the wall i developed the "mountain draw", to help reduce rope drag, and they work quite well.

sweet! me and some of my 'ice climbing' friends have spent some winter days climbing on sperry. Almost died there with ken s. whenit warmed up very fast, and we had to make a serious retreat. We were about a 1,000ft off the deck, when the steep ice turned into water falls, and there was nothing to attach to. The picks would make a hole, that the water would poor out of, and cause more melting. We didnt want to be responsible for pulling the other off, if we were to fall, so we decided to go solo... will never forget that helpless feeling of impeding death (that seemed so sure to be coming, only a matter of time). ... as im sure you will not forget this beautiful day you had. thanks for sharing !

took my bro. 4 times (without ANY "beta"..aka climbing guide books) to find his way up north peak. by the time he found a safe way, he had the mnt. wired. when he took me up there, 2 others were doing just like you did. he told them that the way they were going was not safe and they will 'head wall out'. They laughed at us, withour gold line ropes and home made gear/harness's. About 2 hrs later, one of em fell a "whole rope length" then "snapped the rope" and he fell to his death only "bouncing off" the rock, 2 times. When we finally got to the lake, well after dark, we found out why the ch47 was flying all around the mtn. and the lake, which seemed like most of the afternoon, by the campers who saw it all happen. They were still wide eyed and freaked out that someone would want to climb. I fell off a log right by there camp, dropping 12ft between sharp sticks pointing up, by another snag. That totally freaked them out when they saw that, with their flashlights when they came running to my scream. it was one of my "close calls of death". they said his harness was embedded into his body, as they were the first ones to him. Never really found out what happened, but was all over the news, before we got home, and of course, everyone who knew we were climbing N peak that day, thought it was one of us.

hey goat boy, cpl yrs ago...mountain goatman, and i threw on some 65+ pound packs and free soloed up liberty bell, in the dark, to spend the night on top. This was after climbing around the area, for a few days. Liberty bell is one of the best mtns to campontop of.(other than the obvious ones). It was one of the things i wanted to do, after making the top after three attempts on the east face, and telling myself i gota come back here and do just that. Took 30yrs, and was well worth it. Watched the sky all night long!!! HigHly recommended, on a non weekend day!!!

yaaaa! thats what i call REAL mountain climbing. looking at way to go... and going for it! I spent 14 days in there in 76, We didnt see another person the whole time. started from east, chelan...holden.(started with 125lbs packs, goldlines and 35mm camera gear, and pitons and...) heard the loudest animal ever one night, just a little to the south of this, looking for a 'dry flat spot', and we instantly climbed up a snow chute, unroped, like the crazy kids we were..scared to death... didnt know 'something' could yell that loud! will never forget that ...sound.

wow..sweeeet! makes me wana go back...been 35yrs...and to have..CAMS! would make things so much 'funner', without super long runouts. Spent a lot of time there as a kid, what fun memories. THANKS for posting and jogging my mind! Niccccce.

sweeeet! thanks for sharing. Ive got a lot zion and Idaho storys. spent my 'honey-moon'- hiking zion in 1975,(fuel(92oct.) was 33cents a gal).... with beautiful zahrah. Man i have a fear of snakes, and it really came out in zion!

will never forget supersteepbushclimbing up to the block, from godhell..never! was the hottest day of the yr. 1987

just gota tell ya..(and wasnt easy cause i dont log in that often); I really enjoyed reading your post!!!! thanks, zip

i really dont like it when you put a tool in and water comes pouring out. Or when you can see the water flowing just under the ice. thought it was way to cold for any of that this past week! There are plenty of big multi 'tired' ice climbs in d area. this one forms up all the time when its really cold out. first time doing this was in mid. 70,s for the old man. Dont think ive seen it so 'clear' looking tho. and, usually there is a very big slide/avalaunch danger here. Have seen some big ones come thru here before.

they've been breaking?????????? says who?? and big question....how???? i got to know dave when he first started out w/ his narrow cams, and what he was putting up with, and....what kind of guy he is/was... perhaps he has nothing do to with it anymore??? or ??? think you should clear a fry your selve here. got questions to this 'statement' of 'fact'??? "been breaking" is a big set of words here.