crimper

g spotter, did you start from the beginning of the thread and see that the routsetter got injured at work right after bolting the line and couldn't climb at all for those two years? in other words, this was not a "project" for him at all, he would have sent the route in no time if not for the injury. so since the two year delay wasn't due to "ego" at all, does that change your response?

i talked with the "unauthorized sender" yesterday. i told him i wouldn't post about what happened, but i figure i can at least reply now that it's being openly discussed. my take is that the guy just wanted to send the climb and had no empathy, sympathy, respect, or appreciation for either the routesetter or the entire tradition of first ascent ethics. he justified his act by saying he did it to "open up the climb so that everyone else could climb it." yet he admitted he had been told the reasons why nobody else was attempting the climb, even though plenty of people could have sent it. however, two years is a long time to deny people the chance to try the climb, especially since the nature of the injury appears to be open-ended. at what point does the routesetter lose the chance at the FA? i think in theory the guy who sent the climb had some justification for doing so, as two years is a very long time, but in reality, he knew he did not have the routesetter's blessing, and he also knew that the locals/developers at this crag supported the routesetter - so he made a decision that was bound to piss those people off. and now he/we deal with the consequences. so was the send worth the backlash? only time will tell.

again, chockstone.

kevbone, you've heard the answer to your hypothetical question, which the audience has taken to have implications for other similar routes: the overwhelming consensus is that it would be bad form and would set a bad precedent to add a bolt, even with the FA party's permission. there are plenty of routes i wish had "just one more bolt" yet i either don't lead them at all, or i lead them on a day i am feeling bold, and then i can actually feel proud that i managed my nerves and performed under pressure. when you add bolts because you are afraid of the route, you are cheapening the experience for everyone after. there are thousands of routes in oregon, lead the ones you think are risk-free, and don't tinkering around with existing routes by trying to get the FA party to feel sorry for your fear of boldily harm. PS: i've lead that climb a few times and don't necessarily enjoy the upper section, but i think it is as safe as a 20-25 foot fall into space - with some potential to swing back into the wall - can be. you won't hit a ledge or anything, there's nothing but air.

nice story kev.

Kev, people are posting their ticks here because it was asked for in the very first thread. They aren't just randomly posting their accomplishments. so how is this apples and oranges, again?

everybody else in the site seems to be psyched that their friends are climbing hard - so why is kevbone the only wet blanket? (disclaimer: kevbone is one of my main climbing partners) kevbone is probably the single biggest "sprayer" i have ever met in the climbing world. he loves nothing more than to walk the base of his local crags and spray beta about every route there - implying, of course, his mastery over those routes, especially the harder ones. but this thread illustrates that people are climbing trad lines and peaks that kevbone (and me, and many other people) will never ever send. to me that's inspiring, and makes me want to get after it. our assumptions regarding the motivations of others are usually an accurate reflection of our own motivations. if kevbone climbed prusik this year, or vesper, or had a baby, don't you think you would have heard him "chestbeat" about it? oh wait, you already did!

OR gear: any 10b in smith's lower gorge (wildfire, for now) OR sport: where the wild things are - madrone WA gear: the last 400 feet of outer space WA sport:

this thread is too good to be true. pinch me!

thanks for the beta on birds. belayer slayer blocks was my main concern. also, why is it rated R? are the bolts way spaced? we'll probably be doing santiam or, i guess, birds, this weekend. i'll post a TR and let you know how it went.

also, was birds in a rut dangerously loose? or just exciting? loose for a sport route, or par for the course for an alpine route?

the wombat rock is amazing, i hiked up and around it a couple times this winter scoping out the routes. did you get a decent view of santiam highway from birds in a rut? if so, why do you think it is "too spooky?" also, first kiss is great. like an easier, more aesthetic and direct wherever i may roam. it deserves way more traffic than it gets.

Has anyone ever done this four pitch multi on the Wombat? I'm looking for a multi-pitch route at Smith on a weekend, away from the masses. Watts' guide gives it a few stars, but i only know one person who has ever climbed it, and I've never seen anyone on it. If anyone has climbed it, i'd love to hear your thoughts. thanks

that was funny, bone.

ivan, sarcasm is lost on those who aren't in on the joke. you and i know not to rap off the tree, but there are clearly plenty of people who don't. so comments like yours aren't very helpful to beacon or climber's rights at and access to beacon, now are they? (not to start a war or anything; i'd rather save my dazzling displays of wit for a different forum)

NO NO NO. DO NOT RAP OFF THE DAMN TREE ON TREE LEDGE. DON'T RAP OFF ANY TREES AT BEACON! one of the "big issues" (apparently) that the relevant agencies have with beacon is that climbers bail off of trees. so please don't bail off any trees! instead, you should be rapping off about 10-15 feet down and 10-15 feet to the climber's right at the top of P2 of young warriors. you get there by NOT topping out on tree ledge, and instead traversing a few right to the obvious anchors.

Gary, thanks for posting some photos. we didn't have a camera between the three of us, so it's great to see your photos and be reminded of just how burly the flare above the chockstone was.

that was weird. i noticed that all the references to minx were deleted. i am noticing a pattern here....is anybody else? then again, does anybody really care?

i climbed the chockstone route on prusik with kevbone and our buddy arent (he's dutch, that's not a typo). went in via aasgard, though like everyone else i'd sworn never to do that again. got a great weather window and summited the same day we hiked in. lots of snow and ice on the north face rap route, though. so yes, kevbone really does climb. much better than he types.

alright, so it was thread drift. but i had to mention blood clot. yech. i can hardly type the words.

if we start a thread on "most hated crux" in the lower gorge, i'd like to nominate blood clot. anyone else feel like showing some hate? PS: i'll second morning star and cry of the poor as the best of the gorge.

kevbone, you're thinking of badfinger.

darrington. some thugs broke into my friend's car while we were hiking. then they hotwired it and drove it into a firepit and left it like that - after stealing a bunch of stuff, including photos of his recent trip to alaska. when we got back to his car after hiking we were like, dude, why did you park in the firepit? and of course he was all, dude, i didn't park there. and then everything became very clear and very lame. then when he called the cops they basically laughed at him and said to meet them at some local grocery store. while we were there one amped-up pickup truck after another pulled up and laughed at him with his OR plates while he talked to the cop. it was like the cop brought him there solely for public humiliation. we begain to get the feeling that someone in one of those trucks was the thug or thugs, or that the story had got 'round already. you know, they keep it in the family in darrington...

cobra, about little wing: it's the old "if every single move is the same, do you rate the climb the same grade as those moves, or do you bump the climb's grade up a bit" argument. i agree that it's 5-8. as in, there's no 5-9 move on it, but a leader who has never led 5-9, but has led a handful of 5-8, could easily hang all over the upper half. as for smith tuff, can we agree that lion's jaw is a good example of stiff 5-8? i took two beginners up that, and they barely got it, while they walked up 5-9 and 10a face climbs at smith. also - and i wanna hear it - who has done cling on, on smith's backside? P1 is greasy and hard for 5-8, but P2 is about as hard a 5-9 as i've ever even followed. i bet it gets climbed once a month, tops.

kevbone, you're killing me. half the time you say this site is "not real" and then the other half of the time you get pissy when people rip on you. so which is it? and either way, keep it up. i love me some free entertainment at work. about canary, i did think the final belly flop - i mean, mantle - on P1 was a bit stiff for 5-8. but just because moves are greasy and awkward doesn't mean the grade should get inflated. and the P2 step-across move is fine for 5-8. and going back the other way, how can air guitar possibly be harder than 5-9? i kept waiting for the 10b part, and got a little spooked as i passed the plaque, and then it was over. is that typical grading for vantage? my vote for sandbag is litle wing at beacon. it goes at 5-8, but never quite feels that way. anyone wanna back me up on that? (besides kevbone, since he's had it wired since the 90s)