JosephH

Of course you do! And of course you can detail exactly what you disagree with...

The comments on the closure from my post above were related to a proposal for a Beacon partial-closure which was recently put together and passionately presented to the BRSP (and not posted here of course). All well and good, except the BRSP and WSP have no say whatsoever in the Beacon Peregrine Closure - its management is entirely under the authority of the WDFW and the BRSP only provides local enforcement services relative to it. And it's not like this fact hasn't been gone over again and again and reiterated both here and in person by three successive BRSP head rangers in a row. That such a proposal would go to the BRSP instead of the WDFW this late in the game (and especially when Kenny works for 'the man') speaks to the degree folks still simply aren't 'getting it' relative to the closure. Seems like there is still an absolute refusal to stop living in a victimal alternate reality bubble driven by the overwhelming unfairness of it all. And presenting this proposal to the wrong agency can't really be taken as anything other than a sure sign of a lingering belief that, "if we could just explain it right and make the right people understand, then they'll finally realize just how unfair it all is to us climbers and change the closure." It's the same indignant, self-absorbed thinking that's gone on since '96 to absolutely no avail. And when the WDFW gets this sort of thing in a lateral hand-off from the wrong agency it likely tells them the folks involved didn't bother to figure out the most basic aspects of the closure let alone why it exists, the history of Peregrines and such closures, the biology behind it, what Beacon represents to the effort to restore Peregrines to their natural NW range and breeding pair count, what impact wind power has had on raptors, how the Beacon closure compares to similar closures around the country, what resource demands enforcement and ongoing management entails, and what the AF's position on similar closures are. In short, the odds are good it instead gets interpreted as an emotional plea by folks who are only focused on their own needs and not interested in the bigger picture or context in which the closure operates. In the end, the search for 'sympathetic ears' is pointless as that's not how the laws and management policy around the closure work - if anything - they are explicitly designed to remove such emotional perceptions and appeals from the process. Again, if you are serious about this proposal then you need to make an appointment to present it to the appropriate WDFW representative and start a discussion with the agency. It of course would be helpful if you developed a relationship with them based on mutual respect and trust, have some idea of the scope and scale of the forty year investment they have into the effort, have read the related laws and policy, and understand where their position and viewpoint as well as you understand your own.

ah, well then, got that wrong.

Didn't you work for them at some point?

Thought you worked for SAIF...?

You work for the government, you tell us...

No need to quote it, dude - I wouldn't think of deleting or changing a word of it. Again, and unlike you, when it comes to Beacon, my business is on the up and up, completely public, and out in the open. P.S. And don't worry, you guys will have a whole new season coming up to apologize for lying about me taking Jeff's rope...

You guys can keep lying about Jeff's rope, but I didn't take it. Sure I took it...that must be why, when I heard I'd taken "Geoff's rope", I immediately tracked down Geoff Silverman to try and figure out what it was all about. Had I taken Jeff Thomas' rope down he'd have it back and you'd have known about it because I would have posted it up here. I don't sneak around doing shit like cutting down trees and destroying route variations - I do what I do out in the open and post up about it here. So no, I didn't take the rope, didn't destroy the trail, but did complain about some fucking moron cutting down the Jimney tree and did vehemently comment on the deliberate rape and destruction of the YW p2 variation by some total pinheads intent on bolting it. Look, you can remain a clueless, lying idiot, or - if you want to lift or modify the closure - get a moderate grip on reality, try to find a modicum of integrity, stop making shit up and lying through your teeth, and learn something about how the closure works and who you'd have to have an honest relationship with in order to attempt to do anything about it.

No one has an argument with wet panteeeeeeezzzz but, like anything else you might want in life, you have to understand how they operate in order get them removed.

Just a note that the WSP did without 90% of it's general revenue funding last year and is going to eat the final 10% this year making it wholly dependent on the Discovery Pass funds. As a result they've had to implement another slashing round of cuts. Those cuts amount to about 40% of employee hours with a shitload of folks being bumped from fulltime to seasonal employees. At Beacon that has meant Breanne has been bumped back to part time and Ben has been bumped down to a 5-month seasonal ranger. He can't support a family on that and mid next month will be his last day. After that he'll be looking for full-time work if anyone knows of any. He can go back for 5 months later in the spring, but hopefully he'll be able to find a job before then. Vivian missed the axe by two bodies and basically anyone hired from 2003 on got whacked. Also, Erik's job up in Olympia as SW Regional Finance and Personnel Director was eliminated in a spate of deep WSP headquarters staff cuts, but he fortunately has enough seniority to pull down a ranger job in Grays Harbor. Bummer all the way around given the BRSP rangers and staff were already overtaxed before this round of cuts; now they'll be way under the gun over the summer. If they end up short of funds from the Discovery Passes then the next round will start closing parks. P.S. I'd have thought after seven years of back and forth posts on the topic you guys might have a basic clue and at least bothered to look into the most fundamental aspects of the closure, but apparently not. So to the point - and for about the millionth time - THE WSP/BRSP ONLY ENFORCES THE CLOSURE, THEY HAVE NO SAY WHATSOEVER IN ITS MANAGEMENT. You want to talk with someone about the closure? Then you have to talk with David Anderson and the 'man' over at WDFW (you know, the guys Kenny works for...). All Karl and the BRSP can do is look at your shit, nodd their heads empathetically, and then pass it on to David. It's utterly and completely pointless talking to the Audubon, the BRSP, your state senator, each other or anyone else. You want to talk turkey about Peregrines? Then just head over to WDFW and talk to David.

Again, there is no way to tension a line while it's nose hooked, can't happen - set one up and try it.

Are you serious or do you just not know anything about slacklines and tightropes? It's phyically impossible to tension a slackline where one of the biners is in a hooked nose configuration.

Just go down to the dam, the zip lines up the gorge walls are already in place.

I don't need to have been there to know that no one got on a slackline with a hooked nose - you can't tension a slackline with it in a hooked nose configuration. And if the biner was sold by those guys then I don't care what shape it is or what's stamped on it - I wouldn't trust it as a key chain.

I'm going with it's a total piece of shit biner which failed for exactly that reason. Buy their shoes if you must, but hardware? From those guys? Never...

Only an idiot would get on one without checking the rig so nose hooked on setup is incredibly unlikely. And after they are set up and tensioned they don't "shift" in the way you are thinking.

Once setup and under tension, how would the nose get hooked?

Hard to imagine a hooked nose scenario on a line someone is walking. I'm going with Tvash's scenario for the gate opening or it just being a shit biner and the gate popping out of lock.

Wait, you mean after reading a bunch of spray here you've actually come away thinking opinions are somehow necessary? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-15060310

Either it somehow wasn't closed completely, or the closure keyhole lock failed from being a cheap piece of trash, or the gate opened under some unknown circumstance. I have seen a couple of strange, hard-to-account-for results with carabiners over the years. Once took a lead fall in CT on a steep overhang and the Chouinard 'D' biner on the piece below the one I fell on instantly shot out into space about twenty yards completely detached from both the rope AND the piece in the rock. I had double checked that placement and knew the biner was on good with the gate closed and oriented properly so go figure. Shit does occasionally happen which defies expectations, reason and logic if you didn't actually watch it happen.

Gotta love the logic here: bolts can go in for almost any reason, but there's almost no reason for which they can be removed. Just what is this vaunted "standard of destruction", anyway? I can't seem to get rid of the vision of Slim Pickens riding that particular pig to the ground.

Use a Fixe 50kn SS rap ring if you want to be absolutely sure of it.

Ass backwards, fixed it for you...

Sure you can, what don't you get from the location and direction of the break?

You can from the location of the failure and angle of the break that this was an open gate failure. Any other failure reason is extremely unlikely. How the gate opened is more the question.