knelson

Whoa. Guess this thread has come full circle, eh? And we now return you to reality...

How?

Stop.

Don't.

Ahhhhhh... I see now. "ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR" comes from when they used the wrong end of the parrot. Always wondered where that came from.

I knew it was true.

Yes... a small car.

doesn't it worry you a little that that someone is a cc.com poster? Probably a bit "premature" to worry about... Are you sayin' that they're a "premature vernaculator?"

Sure she does. She just hands the bag to her brother after finishing her business and says "You take care of it since we woulda been up here 2 hours earlier if it wasn't for your sorry..."

To echo what others have already said, "No" and "No". No, your reservation wasn't a waste. You now have peace of mind that you have a spot and you're there legally. If you were to get your permit the day of your outing, it would've been free (I think you probably paid a $20 "reservation" fee?) but chances are all the allocated spaces would have already been taken and you would've been SOL. And no, except for the obvious gaping holes in the snow and 75 degree snow slopes, there are no signs that you've wandered the wrong way. That's why people are telling you not to wander around up there in a white-out. If you go past Camp Muir... you've gone too far! Just stay on the flat of the Muir Snowfield and you'll do OK. The problem folks encounter up there is that as they're heading up, it's not really apparent that they are making kind of a long sweeping left turn. So... when they come down, they just come straight down the fall line of the slope... which does NOT lead them to where they want to go. You have to make a conscious "right turn" as you come down. It's obvious in nice weather, not so obvious when you can't see where you're going. And don't let that last 1000 vertical feet wear you down. You WILL eventually get there... it just SEEMS like it's taking forever. -kurt

Yup. You got it.

MissQ, For some reason, I was thinking you were tenting it. After rereading your post, perhaps I was just assuming. If indeed you ARE staying in the public hut at Muir, be prepared for not getting a lot of shut eye that night. Climbers will be up at all hours, getting ready to head out. Strange smells, some organic - some not, will waft your way. Just be prepared to not have a quiet alpine experience, and you'll be OK. If you are tenting it, there MAY be spots available near the hut to set up. Just don't wander too far north from the hut or you may find a hidden crack on the Cowlitz Glacier. As I noted before, my personal preference is towards the right side of the Snowfield (looking up), just above Anvil Rock. Don't take offense if this comment seems dumb, but from the sounds of it, you're new to snow... Take fuel to melt snow for water. You won't find any streams up there. Sorry if it sounds condescending, but I figured I'd make the comment just in case it didn't cross your mind. Have fun! -kurt

No intention to scare you. If the weather is clear, you will have NO issues, except for sore muscles perhaps. If weather moves in, it could be a little sporty... as they say. There is a possibility of snow at that elevation every month of the year, but mid-June seems like a perfect time. Normally (not this year though) mid-June is early enough to still be looking at a pretty snowy mountain, while late enough to have a fairly good foot path up there. Rainier Mountaineering (RMI) starts guiding their summit climbs mid-May, so you should have a good trough set in when you go. BUT... any high winds and snow can wipe that out pretty quick. I've always been amazed at how fast my own foot prints go away in bad weather. Glad to hear you have a reservation for the night as that area probably gets filled to their maximum quota pretty quick. -kurt

A definite second on all that advice. For a good, safe experience with the background you note, don't even consider going if it's cloudy. No use going up there for the night if all you're gonna see is the inside of a cloud. Regarding permits - while you won't need a climbing permit, you will still need a backcountry permit for tenting on the Muir Snowfield. Specifically, you'll need a cross-country overnight permit (or whatever they call it now) for the "zone" that encompasses the Snowfield. No fee, last I checked. My camping choice would be to pick a spot down by Anvil Rock, unless you want the "ambiance" (smelly/noisy) of Camp Muir. Have fun! -kurt

Fuggedaboudit, Glad to hear you're out safe. I was honestly thinking about your group last weekend and hoping you'd decided to bail. Regarding you being miffed about the response you got regarding "route information", I must've misunderstood your request because that's not how I read it. "Any advice on whether mid-May looks good or whether I should try to move it up into April appreciated." Doesn't look like you're asking for advice on snow bridges, route, etc... not that the info from last year would do you any good this year anyways. I think most here were thinking... "traveling all the way from back east for THIS season?!! Yuck. Use your time somewhere better." And as others noted, that route seems to have an overabundance of accidents involving out-of-staters. While NOLSE's pics were probably a bit much, his advice seemed pretty good. (Can't believe I just said that.) I think there'd be fewer accidents on that route if more people followed it - which is tough to do when you plan a trip just for that objective. Just my 2cents, kurt

Yup... and it looked kinda grumpy this morning. The "non-refundable airline ticket" coupled with "... but it was my only time free" does seem to be a underlying issue with a lot of mishaps on that route, if you look deep enough for a root cause. Not passing judgement... just saying that different people climb in different ways. Some on the mountain's terms, some on their own. Unfortunately, the mountain usually wins. Let's send these groups some good thoughts this weekend and hope they have nothing but good stories to relay. -kurt

INTERNATIONAL ANIMAL HUSBANDRY RING BUSTED [Vancouver, BC] RCMP believe they have broken an international animal husbandry ring based near the Vancouver suburb of Chilliwack. Police swarmed the home of the late 30 year old male suspect just before noon on Thursday. The suspect is believed to be the leader of an alledged cross-border animal exchange program. Captain Dan Odder of the RCMP believes they interrupted the suspect just as he was finalizing a milestone deal in the program. "Yeah... we cut the power to his house before we came in, and we found him frantically trying to reconnect to the internet on his computer." said Captain Odder when questioned about the raid. "Poor sap. All he could mutter was 'Gotta make 25,000. Gotta make 25,000.' We think we shut him down just before he raked in some pretty good money." Odder believes the ring had been operating under the guise of a internet forum board for mountain climbers. "In our investigation, we were tipped off by the large number of references to sheep, goats, otters, and most of all... well... the male appendages of horses." That, combined with photos found on the suspects' computer of obviously cross-bred animals, birds, and reptiles make the RCMP believe they've just found the tip of the iceberg. "What concerns me, being a parent of a young child" said Odder, "were the pictures we found of 'Hello Kitty'. I've never seen anything worse in my 20 years in this job, eh?" The RCMP is cooperating with US Federal officials in Washington State as they investigate further into the internet forum that was involved in facilitating the animal swapping transactions. The internet forum is based in a suburb of Seattle, WA. US officials would not comment further, as they did not want to hamper their investigations. They would acknowledge that they were tipped off by a rival internet forum, and thanked "those fellow patriots" for their alertness in this matter. The suspect is being held without bail, and without internet access.

(sounds of bells and whistles blaring in the background...) WE HAVE A WINNER! -kurt

Why not just go down the Emmons, hang a left at Schurman Hut, and go down the Winthrop until you meet up with the "normal" route from St. Elmo's Pass. Then you can just traverse from the Winthrop over the lower part of Curtis Ridge, to the east side of the Carbon. From there, pick up the boot track that leads you back into Moraine Park and head back to your car via the Carbon trail. Seems like the best way without car shuttles and just a little longer than the "normal" route out via White River. -kurt

Nah... too lazy. But 65 and sunny sounds about right.

Yes... I do know about the weather this weekend.

Reminds me of "mitigation" done for wetlands development around here. They allow the developer to create another wetland somewhere else. Does it need to be in the same drainage? No. Same general area? No. Phhhhhhhh. The wetlands destroyed by the 3rd runway at SeaTac were "replaced" by wetlands in the Green River Valley, down by Auburn! Go figure. -kurt

Felony. They were already considered "livestock" before this latest law. ... or so I've heard. ... from a friend of a friend.

Ahh... but then you get to wear a cool pirate eye patch and play cool pirate games like "walk my plank." Arrrrrrrg.

Well... yes and no. If you're evacuated by a military unit, you're right - no charge. But even before this latest cut, a military chopper wasn't a done deal. As Gator and others have commented, the private air ambulances have had to pick up when the Army took all their toys to a different sand box... at least on Rainier. Our group helped haul a guy down from Camp Schurman a few years back 'cause they couldn't secure any military choppers. A private outfit picked him up at Glacier Basin in very soft snow! I'm pretty sure they didn't do it out of the kindness of their heart. I've always been on the "rescues shouldn't cost anything" kick when military flights were available. As mentioned... they gotta get their hours in, and live action training is the best way of all (unfortunately for the unintentional "trainier.") Even though I don't agree with their mission right now, the Army does have its priorities... and mountain rescue is sort of low on that list, I'm guessing. Sucks - but what are you gonna do. What I haven't heard is what happens when the equipment and people come back? To me, seems like a temporary issue... I hope. -kurt