eldiente

Yep Extras on the 1" and 2" size are the ticket. I seem to recall using 2x .75 on the undercling pitch.

Sounds like a Troll to me.. Wasn't this a popular topic ohhh about 2 years ago? The route is fun but not good enough to be classic and draw lots of crowds. Approach was at least an hour if not more in very dense jungle bush whacking. Although there now might be a better trail as we climbed it a few years ago. 10b seems right on for a grade although that is sort of misleading as there is so many low angle 5th class pitches mixed in. The 10b parts are short and welcome changes from the slabs below. Simul climbing is a wise move, bring as many draws as you can carry and you can link many pitches together. I would think a strong 5.10 leader would only have to have a proper belay for a handful of pitches on the whole route. And yes the descent is shitty, so low angle that it is hard to get a proper rap. -Nate

Man does anyone ever post anything useful here anymore? Starting a post with "hypothetical" just to get everyone arguing about the same gay issue.. Spray it is.. For the record, that route is just fine as it is. The slab up there is exciting but not that big of a deal. That route is crappy anyway, as are most of the routes out there. You could install a bolt every 6 inches up there and it wouldn't make a lick of difference to anyone.. Just another greasy urban crag close to Wendys and the outlet mall.

You can see this master topo at PRG on the wall. It is actually a really good topo, you couldn't get lost if you tried. It is all shiny and laminated. I see that you can buy it from some website but now I can't remember the URL. Something like Mr. Piton maps or something. Anyone else seen this topo?

Seeing if anyone form the Portland area would want to meet-up and climb Smith or Trout Creek this weekend. I'll lead 10-11+ and follow or belay on anything. I prefer trad but I've got a few bolted projects that I'd like to clean up. Mostly looking forward to seeing the sun for a change. Carpooling down would be idea but I can drive myself if need be Any takers? PM me or hit my email. natetack@gmail.com -Nate

Trout creek would be fun. Can we do Saturday at Trout, Smith on Sunday?

Wow, that is really ugly. What a shame. And for what purpose? Squamish is such a beautiful place. It is a real tragedy that it isn't better taken care of.

That is some awfully good beta.. Sounds like someone has done this link-up before.

No more so than you being a home owner and some wanker comes along and starts telling you what you can and can't do with your freehold tenure that you paid for. You guys have a problem with it, get your checkbook out and deal with it like the FMCBC et al did across the road a bunch of years back otherwise bite your tongue; unless of course you want to promote a society that thinks it OK to pass idiotic bylaws that purport to fine property owners $10K/tree for unauthorized harvest. Are you for real? There are all kinds of laws governing what one can and can't do with thier own private property. I live in crowded city but want to turn my backyard into a a slaughter house for the pigs I'm raising in my front lawn. Is there a problem with this? Yes because although it is my property, cutting up pigs on my lawn is going to negatively effects my neighbors. Cutting down trees on the Malmute is shameful and negatively effects the entire Squamisha area as whole, not just climbers. The only economy Squamish hasa left is tourists. Tourists don't won't come to look at clear-cut.

Maybe you and Bush should good get together for lunch and trade stories as your both full of shit.... 9/11 had nothing to do with Iraq, this has been proven and well known for sometime. The Democrats as passing a useless funding bill with no teeth. If you actually read the spending bill, it has no way of ending this war and is in fact funding it for as long as Bush wants to wage it.. What a bunch of Nancys.

There is a lot of unknowns with this and it is silly to sit at a computer and try to say what happened. That said, given what we know I'm OK with this guy going to jail for murder. I don't have a problem walking around the woods armed, that's your business. The real kick is that if you are going to own/carry a gun you need to be prepared to make some good judgment calls and realize that that if you screw up you might shoot someone that should be alive. If you fuck up than, than your going to jail. In this case I'd make an example of this guy and send him to jail for a good long while. Might make other people think twice before taking their gun out while on nature walk.

I've seen a small hand crack on the Wells Fargo building downtown that might be doable. Although it is a bit shallow and about 100m long...

Yeah, the wind looked ugly out there this PM. Damn, I was afraid of that. Anyone up for some other spot? Madrone might be good and out of the wind. Nate

Looks to be great weather this weekend and I'm looking to climb Beacon. Any takers? I can bring the rack and the rope. If for some reason Beacon is to windy or cold I'd be open for climbing someplace else around Portland that is a little more protected. Email me or PM me. natetack@gmail.com -Nate

Oh this is my favorite argument from the hammer swinging aider. "Were actually creating holds for free climbers by making pin scars." This is a great community service, and the climbers 10,000 years from now well thank you for creating such nice holds... Make that a million years as those scars will still be there. You clearly don't think this is a problem. By your logic we should still be nailing Stovelegs cracks as this is how the first ascent party did it. No of course not, you'd get lynched trying that. Why? Well there is a better way to climb that crack, free or clean aid if you like. I know you'd say it is OK to nail a perfect hand-crack as that's how it was done by the FA, but really that is disrespectful of your fellow climbers and the natural environment as a whole. There is room for discussion on the effects of bolting on the natural environment cause lets face it, a big shinny bolt is a bit of an eye sore at times. I know nothing about this particular route, but looking at it from a low-impact standpoint , the bolts will be far less destructive than repeated nailing of the route on this type of rock. What do you think Beth held onto to climb the Optimist? Jugs? No dude….pin scars.

I like the way you put it there. I guess thats how I think. Since I will never climb 5.14, I know would be pissed if one of my aid FAs got bolted just to be freed...being that it was something I was proud of sans bolts. That's your vanity getting in the way.

What the F....is that supposed to mean. That is entirley your opinion. WTF... who's time is being wasted? You are the one responding! Quit wasting my time. Bro. We are having a discusion on bolting old aid lines. Its is not dissing on anybody's accomplishments. Heray for those who have freed it. Question: If the someone (anybody) aided a line in Yosemite, then someone else came in and bolted it later, then much later someone freed it, would this even have gotten to this point, because the “retro bolts” would not have been allowed to stay. FA are respected there. Apparently not at smith. Or maybe the person who retroed it got permission. Wow, that really is a stretch there pal. Lets all cry for how things used to be in the valley... This hypothetical "aid climber" in the valley probably nailed the route so that there is nothing left but pin scars for the rest of us. Sound about right? Man I wish we could all just go back in time where it was all just a matter of whoever gets to the top first gets to make the rules. The Nose was nailed on the FA so should the rest of us nail the route just because that's how FA was done? I'm going to bring this style back and carry a huge step ladder with me wherever I go. I'll climb this ladder to the top of many small cliffs and claim the FA and set the rules for that route. My rules are no fixed pro whatsoever no matter how blank the face. If you'd used a ladder like me you wouldn't need any gear or a rope for that matter. Sound silly? Well maybe I'll use a ladder made of webbing instead and call it "aiding." It is great to respect the bold person who does a new route but that isn't the end-all. Maybe there is a better way to do it? Maybe the FAs style of ascent could be improved upon? If so shouldn't we jump at the chance to improve upon the style of the FA? Style is a wide open topic for sure and well beyond the scope of this topic.

This topic is silly but hard to get away from. Many bolted routes at Smith could be lead a natural gear if you really wanted to. But why would you want to? With the exception of the Lower Gorge the crack climbing at Smith is ass. (here comes the storm about Lion's Jaw and Super Slab being the the best cracks in the west) Be honest with yourself and call a spade a spade. You probably could aid lots of the Smith routes on natural gear, but again why the hell would you want to? Smith rock is swag at best. There will never be a shortage of obscure difficult, aid routes to climb in the world. That might be the best part of aiding. The ability to get away from the crowds and climb something that everyone would pass by. Smith is a zoo by any standard. Mostly it annoys me. I'd rather climb granite splitters. The rock is ass but with bolts it can be climbed safely and be a lot of fun. Everything you'd want from a sport crag. Even suggesting that any bolts be removed at smith because there is some potential for a person to aid the pitch is not only stupid, but makes you look like an ass. Climbers shouldn't agree about everything, but I think a tad bit of common sense will tell you that bolting a obscure aid route at smith for free climbing is probably just fine.

WIth the cold air we've had the last few days, any chance this might be in?

Bill you can't reply to this post. Your in Colorado. Take a look at the title of this forum. Maybe you should spend some time on "sanjusanclimbers.com" or perhaps sangredecristoclimbers.com."

Hey that's a good idea. Although I know of a certain someone that might have a problem with that...

I'm looking to get a regular partner for PRG. I prefer to lead climb but I like a good TR workout as well. Any nights after 6:00 works for me. It would be great to meet up with other partners looking to get in some good workout sessions. Shoot me an email. natetack@gmail.com -Nate

The rescue locater units are a bad idea and something that should not be encouraged. Part of the problem with that mountain is that people are under the impression that, "hey if something happens to me, I'll just turn on my beeper and a magic helicopter will fly in and rescue me. " This is not climbing. Climbing is risky, sometimes bad things happen. If you really feel you might need to be rescued by other people maybe you shouldn't be going up there at all? Maybe a tad bit of self-reilaince would be a good thing instead of tying to figure out new and improved ways to call in a rescue.

Really a horrible idea. Just because there is a rescue going on is no excuse to be littering all over the mountain. This is exactly the problem with Hood and other popular wilderness areas. Some of us prefer going climbing to get away from the mechanized world, being firebombed from the air by military helicopters is disrespectful to the mountain and to people who chose to climb there.

Good info. How about the West Face? 10d or so I'm told. I'm looking for a harder/clean route to the to of North Early. Any thoughts?