KaskadskyjKozak

Well, I almost got hit by a bread-loaf-sized rock last weekend, and that's not the first time I got lucky myself either.

I meant as "great a climber". my impression is that you have some good skills, but I don't know you. you once talk ed with authority about climbing Liberty Ridge and being comfortable downclimbing the steep ice, or you shouldn't be there. based on what little I know about the route (never been there, and it's probably not in my future if I want to stay married), I get the impression that you are pretty good. Also based on people I know who have met you.

Maybe I'm just a pussy who is afraid of getting hurt or killed, so I take it more cautiously. When I mentioned Accidents in Mountaineering, it just seems that some people don't take things seriously enough, or take chances that they shouldn't. That doesn't mean I'm talking about you or matt or dirty harry or anybody else here. maybe you all did things the right way - on your own. but I don't thing everyone does it so well on their own. btw, I freely admit that when it comes to rock climbing, "I am so suck"

I never took a shot at you. I just said I would never be comfortable learning on my own, without the benefit of a more experienced person. That person, could be a friend, a relative, a guide service, or some instructor in a climbing club. who said I was promoting the Mounties? see above - my PERSONAL feeling is that *I* would not be comfortable learning to climb on my own, and if someone asks my advice (or posts such a question here), it would be to get instruction or mentoring from someone with experience. Someone like YOU for example - doesn't have to be the Mounties, Boealps, or whatever

you can learn routefinding skills on your own. just go on "safer" outings - off trail scrambles for example. There are lots of good ones in the PNW. doing route research is smart, and knowing what to expect is a good idea. On Hood, for example, some people get lost in whiteouts coming down. Just plan for how you'd deal with the conditions coming down (i.e. what compass bearings and landmarks are important). you can invest in a GPS and learn to use it to set way points. but don't rely on it always working - still need map and compass skills. but wait, I guess that's 10 essentials, so we should just leave it behind, so we can be cool - unlike those mounties

who ever said that? you guys jump to conclusions and a few here aren't saying just that not everyone needs "regimented instruction" - they're piling on personal attacks, and blasting the mounties. I don't give a rat's ass if someone doesn't like the Mounties. Everyone has their own opinion. I don't like regimented courses either, or rules, or authority, whatever. Again, you guys jump to conclusions. For climbing, I don't like planning every detail and going up in a large group. I prefer doing stuff on the spur of the moment in a smaller group (3-4). And I don't wear shorts of poly-pro and gaiters and all those other stupid cliches that get posted over and over. get over it, guys

guess you have the same mediocre goals as me. how boring. for an off-trail approach, or on a glacier? many climbs in this area have boot-paths to the summit during prime season, and there are lots of great route descriptions out there. just curious what you had in mind...

not everyone can (or should try to) be as great as you Be a good comrade and don't stand out from the herd, now. does everyone have to aspire to grade IV and V climbs to be in this sport? FOTH has a great picture showing "sphere of acceptable risk" - everyone has their own limits and goals. Some of us are perfectly happy and satisfied climbing Grade II and III routes on blue-bird days.

not everyone can (or should try to) be as great as you

you're beyond rehabilitation. consider completing your avator with a properly-placed hole, and it'll become a fully accurate representation of you

True, but you'd need to follow mattp's advice on reading FOTH carefully and applying it. If you girth hitch one runner around a tree, with a single (locking, I hope) 'biner, you might do just fine, but that's not redundant. Those water knots sure seem tight and solid, but they slip. you get my drift.

your point on fitness is well-made. I researched some of these guide services, and found a lot of stuff on the web from people complaining about the physical challenges, and having a miserable time.

a qualification which you obviously do not meet

shoo, fly

since when does a 17-year-old male have common sense?

it's just KK - Kaskadskyj Kozak. The registration page would not accept blank spaces. Those reports do not go into whether someone took a course or not, in general. However, there is that phrase "exceeding abilities" that appears over and over, and there are certain kinds of mistakes that are mentioned over and over again, which make one wonder where the victim learned to do what they are doing... there are... who said otherwise? Self-taught in this sport just strikes me as potentially very dangerous. Well, that all depends on the individual, and the climb. More conservative - sometimes. More safe... very subjective.

well, yes, that's what I said - find someone you trust who has more experience. but you described a scenario where two beginners just teach themselves trial-and-error

Exactly. Have you done this? Care to fill us in on how this went? My question about these courses is how much you can get out of a class in such a short period of time, and whether it is worth the cost.

wow. that would scare the crap out of me. I've read one too many S&R report on line or in Accidents in Mountaineering.

book knowledge is not enough... you have to at least hook up with some people who have experience that you can trust and who can impart it to you.

Gas prices suck. But we've brought it all on ourselves.

Anybody been up there recently? What are the conditions like?

why not just put everything inside a plastic bag inside of your pack?

It's in John Long's book. The kind of thing you learn by heart when you are beginning and then forget and do naturally. :-)

seems climbing is down in general... see other threads on Rainier attempts, etc.