Bogen

Are most of you suggesting that the only reason to act at all is because it may affect your access at a later date? Forget about the law, and how this makes us look. It is really important (to most people I guess, since laws were passed) to have some areas immune to the form of progress that follows motorized and mechanized development. Violators should be stopped. Involve the law if you have to. I've broken too many laws myself to be comfortable asking for help from enforcement officials, but do what you gotta do...

Not trying to be hurtful, sorry. You gotta admit, that last post WAS a little dis-jointed...

By the way, no one has commented on the reason that power drills may be bad for wilderness areas. We seem to be hung up on our own access as climbers. Is there more at stake here?

Believing in the wilderness ethic is one thing, believing in the law is another. Is it right to break the law because you think it is wrong? Is it right to rely on authority only when it suits your purpose, and to defy it otherwise? Is there any such thing as objective "right?" Ultimately there is only force - force of majority as is theoretically the case here. The guy is breaking a law that you support, would you force him to stop? If yes, would you try to do it yourself, or pass it off to the people who are supposed to force him to stop?

Give em shit first, then see where it goes.

Retired engineer if he's drunk this early!

Alright, I guess the jigs up boys. You're right, BW, global warming is a big scam. But we have the best of intentions, we are trying to convince policy makers that pollution is more than stinky, so maybe they'll make it stop. Now hush up and play along.

Don't have time, if they are right. Burden of evidence is overwealming, if you understand it. There are great many things in this world that require understanding rather than absolute, tangible proof. Of course, it may be that global temp is on the rise through purely natural factors, and pollution only increases the rate by some undetermined factor. Do you think we should ignore pollution? What are you arguing about?

The Presidential Election. Maybe you haven't heard about it yet. Oh, yeah, I heard aboot it. I guess it's just not important to me, eh.

What happens in 7 weeks? Lowell, I don't think that the average person doubts anthropogenic climate change. I even think most people care enough to ask their neighbors to change their behaviour Here's an interesting question for the forum. What would you be willing to give up to slow global warming? Suzuki figures that one of the largest economic forces behind excess energy consumption is our penchant for international products. That is to say that by the time you buy those 25 dollar jeans made in china from cotton that came from pakistan and colored with dye from malaysia, they've been shipped round the world a couple times,with the ensuant pollution. I have been trying lately to buy locally made products even where they are more expensive. I find it very hard to make a committment to this behaviour - it is hard enough to find quality products at a reasonable price without this complication. Suzuki says that if everyone in north America changed their spending habits in this fashion, we could drastically lower global pollution. So, stop eating bananas and eat only locally grown fruit, or buy gear from a local manufacturer even if it is not quite what you want (by the way, what are the local manufacturers?) What would or have the rest of you done or tried to do without for the sake of pollution reduction?

You have access to pretty much the same info these professional forecasters do. Look at the satellite maps, barometric pressure maps etc, and make your best guess. You probably won't do any better, but at least you'll have no-one but yourself to blame.

http://www.uiaa.ch/article.aspx?a=78&c=1 http://www.alpineclubofcanada.ca/services/safety/Marking%20of%20Ropes.doc

I turned my head on Sunday, caught a chunk of ice in the temple. Nothing but sprinkles on my helmet all day. I suppose my partner should have warned, or should I orient my head in a more upright position? I have a friend who works derrick on the drilling rigs, he says that one habit they are told to break is yelling a warning when they drop something because the first reaction is to look up.

Thanks, we are kinda fixated on spending the night up there, so lawn chairs it is.

do we need a portaledge? (or 15$ chaise lounge lawn chair, as the case may be?) Is there an appropriate spot up there for a bivy?

You know, the queen herself came to the grand unveiling of that damn egg (properly known as a pysanka) U of A butterdome climbing wall is good and cheap. Da de O's on 106 street and whyte ave is good eats and beer - Oyster po-boy and mississippi mud beer are my recommendations. spend the evening on whyte ave with partying university types. After drinking enough, go to Saskatchewan Drive (6 blocks north of whyte) and ~112 street to find, on campus, a squat, white building known locally as the "tory turtle" that you can climb on top of in the middle of the night, it is rock blocks and mortar, maybe 20 or 40 feet of 5.9/10a and really is worth doing for the view and adventure (no pro, security guards)Later, within 5 blocks, you can rappel off the High Level bridge (109 street, 6 blocks of north of whyte ave- about 120 feet to pavement on the south side. Sleep in, get drunk, and repeat.

This is the text accompanying the above link: Why do ice cubes grow spikes? The short explanation is this: as the ice freezes fast under supercooled conditions, the surface can get covered except for a small hole. Water expands when it freezes. As freezing continues, the expanding ice under the surface forces the remaining water up through the hole and it freezes around the edge forming a hollow spike. Eventually, the whole thing freezes and the spike is left. A slightly longer explanation: the form of the ice crystals depends on the cooling rate and hence on the degree of supercooling. Large supercooling favors sheets which rapidly cover the surface, with some sheets hanging down into the water like curtains. These crystalites tend to join at 60 degrees and leave triangular holes in the surface. Hence, spikes often have a triangular base. The sides of the spike are sometimes a continuation of pre-existing subsurface crystalites, and can extend from the surface at steep angles.

We started climbing while living in Edmonton, which is more than a couple hours from the mountains. Sport rappelling for its own sake was often all we could get in the way of a fix. Combine with high bridges or buildings at night and liberal amounts of beer for a very memorable experience! I burnt a rope black on speed rappel and just about cut one through swinging back and forth. Dumbass? You betcha! I wouldn't do anything quite that foolhardy again, having somehow gotten older and wiser, but I recall the excitement enough that I wouldn't begrudge anyone a little sport rappelling (though I might stop to offer advice on maximum speeds and anchor building).

I have run across flagging that I could see no earthly reason for, other than somebody unnecessarily flagging their back trail. I suppose this happens more in the featureless north, but I have seen it down here on the coast. I suppose I feel strongly about this because I have been led astray, foolishly following someone else's trail when common sense would have served better.

Bury your shit, don't piss near open water. If you want to return on the same trail, or someone is following, flag it- it beats the way we marked trails for the first few hundred years we were bushwhacking in this country. On the other hand, if you don't now what you are flagging, don't. Like a bolted route on a climb, if you flag you are presuming to set pro, or a trail for who knows how many or what quality of hikers/climbers to come. Do so responsibly.

thanks for the excellent directions. I expect we will sleep at the road tonight and climb it first thing in the morning

Hi folks. We'ld like to climb Oregon Jack this weekend, and would appreciate some beta, or at least directions. -we don't have much of a guide to the area and only started ice climbing out here this year. thanks