archenemy

There sure is a difference between home grown and store bought!! We also raised our own meat. As for not being encouraged as a girl, I wasn't either. I was not invited, only my brother was. I used to steal his wrist rocket, then bb gun, and hunt rabbits as a kid. Then I was given a real gun by my bf and loved it. The first time I went shooting with my dad was when I was in my twenties. It was the first time I ever shot at skeet and trap. Afterwards, my dad told me not to tell my bro about the afternoon b/c I was a better shot that him. Looking back, I realize that was an important lesson on many levels. Funny how life is like that.

Mr's Selkirk? That's funny.

It doesn't seem to say anything like that, but this looks like a catch: No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; So the "due process of law" sort of leaves things open. What are your thoughts?

I'll take a look right now--this is very interesting. I've never thought much about the general right to vote, so I am not very knowledgable.

Actually, I think that is exactly what you said. But maybe I misunderstood...

Thank you for getting us back on topic.....you make some very valid points. Would I be wrong in thinking that it is a conflict of interest to be able to vote only were the gravy train is coming from? How does that better our country? 50% of a two party democracy is voting people out, or voting for more money for me. Ours is not a perfect system, so it does need to be continually tweaked. However, we must show prudence on how and where to tweak our system to make it work well. We SHOULD vote for what we feel is best for America, and we should our choices for our leaders accordingly. However, there will be those who vote for whoever is going to fatten their own pocketbook. That can not be helped. I guess if we disallow ALL those whose income source is the government then we are saying ALL whose income source is from the government are only fattening their own pocket books. AND it might be true that all whose income source is from the government are not thinking about what is best for America, however, once we open the door to revoke their voting privileges, then we will have tweaked the system and the repercussions will be far reaching. More that I am willing to risk. I suppose your voting privledge would only go away while you are on a govy check.....once you stand on your own feet again....you get to vote again.... In hindsight and after the non sprayer commentary.....it does sound like a fairly fool hardy endeavor. I just came out of a meeting with a lawyer. In that meeting I asked him, “What is the difference between a right and a privilege?” His answer was as I thought; a right can not be revoked where as a privilege can. So I asked about the right to vote, and if is it a right or a privilege. He pulled a copy of the constitution and showed me at least two amendments on the RIGHT to vote. Voting is clearly a right. It would take a constitutional amendment to revoke that right by a specific group of people. However, amendments are extremely vague in order to allow for interpretation by the court and legislation. Therefore if we were to revoke the voting privileges of one group for say their primary source of income was from the government, then it would be very easy to extend that to say someone who uses public lands for personal adventures such as climbing. However, the more important point he brought up was the original spirit of our constitution was to protect the people from a federal government that might be to strong. I feel revoking voting privileges of any group of people would be going against the original spirit of our constitution. Sorry, but I am a bit confused here. You start out saying voting is a right, but then switch to calling it a privledge. I think I understand that it's a right. But how can it be that it is taken away from felons? Then, it couldn't be a right, right?

It would be tough to measure exactly how much time and money from a salary got put to herds vs. to overall work. But I think that herd management does not only benefit hunters either (as JayB stated above). So it is kind of a wash. I think it is fair to say 100%; but you certainly have a point.

And let's please not forget that hunters pay for 100% of the costs of managing these herds. That includes keeping track of them, selectively feeding groups that have starved below acceptable levels, innoculating herds from completely devestating diseases when/where appropriate, etc etc etc. Wow, Really? 100%? Does that include the cost of the salaries of the fish and wildlife guys, too? Wow, hunting fees must be enormous! Either that or you don't think that the average taxpayer is responsible for some of the work that fish & wildlife do. Or, maybe we should charge hikers everytime they see a nice birdie or bambie?

Back when I hunted, I didn't view it as a sport, no more so than growing my own vegatables was a sport. I wanted to know where my meat was coming from. It was work, that had some sporting elements (like using a trad bow). But I know a lot of hunters viewed it as a sport, which was part of the culture about the entire experience that I didn't like. Well put. Although I am not against hunting as a sport, I do not personally hunt for sport. I do not consider my impetus for hunting superior than those who hunt for their own entertainment (I am, of course, against poaching). I started hunting b/c I couldn't afford meat any other way. On the other hand, I fish and I pretty much only catch and release. In essence, I only fish for my own entertainment. This, on my mind, is ethically equivalent to those who hunt for pleasure. And yes, the animal is not killed--but I think the logic is about the same. So, you spent $$$ for a tank of gas, a gun, ammo, licenses, those cool looking technicolor vests, etc...because you couldn't afford chicken at .99/lb? Bwahhhh! You po black chilluns sho kno howda make up dat shit talk.... Your version of hunting is pretty different than mine. I was given my first gun, I caught a ride with my hunting buddies, I didn't and don't dress up beyond the regulation $2.99 orange overvest, paid the $48 Idaho license fee and bought a $15 box of ammo and had meat for myself, my man, and my random guests for a year. My meat was clean and butchered by me in my clean kitchen. I stored it in a chest freezer I bought used for $25. And I know that the animal lived well and died quickly (b/c believe it or not, I actually like animals and don't want them to live in feed lots). I know I will never change anyone's mind about hunting with my logic and my feelings behind my actions. But I do think it is important to discuss it--especially with people who "embrace diversity" and all that shit (that may not be you, but I'm just saying...). Different strokes for different folks.

I actually emailed him last night. His offer was a bit low so I thought I'd look here. Thanks for the link though, that was sweet of you.

Yeah, but he doesn't get whiskey. nyah nyah nyah

And let's please not forget that hunters pay for 100% of the costs of managing these herds. That includes keeping track of them, selectively feeding groups that have starved below acceptable levels, innoculating herds from completely devestating diseases when/where appropriate, etc etc etc.

Back when I hunted, I didn't view it as a sport, no more so than growing my own vegatables was a sport. I wanted to know where my meat was coming from. It was work, that had some sporting elements (like using a trad bow). But I know a lot of hunters viewed it as a sport, which was part of the culture about the entire experience that I didn't like. Well put. Although I am not against hunting as a sport, I do not personally hunt for sport. I do not consider my impetus for hunting superior than those who hunt for their own entertainment (I am, of course, against poaching). I started hunting b/c I couldn't afford meat any other way. On the other hand, I fish and I pretty much only catch and release. In essence, I only fish for my own entertainment. This, on my mind, is ethically equivalent to those who hunt for pleasure. And yes, the animal is not killed--but I think the logic is about the same.

Dating?

Um, climbing? Spraying maybe?

and I love raspberries!

I want to try a torta. Sounds super good!

I like capitalism.

not that I have anything against ass monkeys

I love music I can feel in my chest. Klipsch are the best horns ever. And they are made in America!! I can't wait to start a serious search for my next setup!!

Yes, genius boy. It is a generalization made from six years of experiences talking about hunting around folks who live in Seattle. This may come as a shock to you, but most human beings learn by catagorizing (i.e. generalizing) their experiences and drawing a conclusion from them. I don't face each and every conversation about hunting as if it is my first conversation about hunting. And yes, that means I come equipped with a few pre-conceived notions (having earned them through previous conversations/experiences). It also means I am just as human as the people I am talking to. Oh, and nice hippie generalization. As you will note, I did not mention "hippie" in my posts here.

I'll bet he got to feel what its like to get divorced for a bit right after that...

I know this is spray, but I am not sure if I should put something non-climbing for sale in the yard sale. I am an audiophile and have a great set (2) of Klipsch Forte II floor speakers with a seperate floor subwoofer in addition. I love Klipsch and am just planning on moving to a different Klipsch setup--but I need to find a new home for these first. PM me if you are interested and tell me the range you might be willing to pay. Thanks, A Oh, and discussion about how awesome Klipsch is can go here....

and cheese. Lots of cheese.

I don't eat much store bought meat. I hunt and if I don't get anything (which is NOT going to happen this year) I will buy occasional meat stuffs from the store. What's funny is that people in Seattle get all nuts about the hunting thing, yet they'll still have a burger and wear leather shoes. Hell, I don't even like cows.