downfall

Yes, was meanining kitty-litter decayed cavities big enough to go in to.

Climbed both SW face of Kangaroo temple (2 caves) and Tunnel Route on Concord this weekend (1 cave). What other cave-like features do people know of around washington pass which are only accessible via climbing routes?

PM me with your email address and I can send you some cool pics of yourselves.

I know this post is old but just wanted to note that we did the traverse using the 4th edition of the guide shortly after you did (july 4th week) and were able to make the non-avy-debris approach to cream lake mostly by using the GPS coordinates. We wouldn't have made it just with the route description as the distances implied between each landmark were longer than we expected. There is a little bit of flagging along the way (which we didn't add nor did we remove) but definitely was not straight forward. We hated to bust out the GPS but after that long day our weak-mountain-man wills had been wasted.

Was on the bailey range traverse in early july and when we were looking down from below cat peak in to the upper hoh valley (beyond where the trail heads up to olympus) we could make out at least two structures created with logs. They each consisted of two upright logs and were spanned by a third log (kind of like this "U" but upside down). They were in the middle of a large gravel bar so I imagine they were erected after the peak spring runoff. Anyone know what these were? I don't imagine access in there is very easy at all.

Turn left on Reiter Rd. when heading east towards gold bar. You can find your way up there from there. Just avoid the ORV trails, its a FS/Logging road the whole way.

Hi Jiri, that was us. Its my partners gear and he doesn't post here but I forwarded your message to him and he'll be emailing you. Thanks for grabbing it.

I think you can also pretty easily link lots of Big-oil with explotation, murder, war on people as well as the environment. Should we continue to protect these companies and their profits which clearly come at a high expense to life and community? Don't even try and question this until you've gone through www.endgame.org and looked up the relevant data (yes I'm talking to Dru and JayB ). Get some facts from there and then we can have some discussion.

If you were on a bike it wouldn't matter. You just posted you were riding the bus. Critical mass makes a concerted effort to let all busses by w/out delay and avoids the 4th st reroute of the bus tunnel to avoid this as well.

BTW, tonight should be critical mass 5:30 at westlake center if you care.

I beleive that a 747 uses about 1gal/sec jet fuel. Though for passenger travel per person fuel effeciency is better than auto. Choinaurd goes in to problems/costs/impact of air freight in Let My People Surf. Conclusion: if you care about the environment dont use air freight.

Humm, doesn't really sound like Feyerabend or even Kuhn for that matter. Have you got some basis for your understanding here about how science actually progresses or how one questions the framework which they are operating within?

Are you going to tell that to the salmon and the black bear and the forests and the rivers and every mother who carries toxins in their breast milk and every victim of rape and the indiginous populations of the world which are left? They should all move so you don't have to question the culture you live in and what you role is in maintaining that culture?

"There are forms of alienation that are relatively strange to statistically "normal" forms of alienation. The "normally" alienated person, by reason of the fact that he acts more or less like everyone else, is taken to be sane. Other forms of alienation that are out of step with the prevailing state of alienation are those that are labelled by the "normal" majority as bad or mad. The condition of alienations of being asleep, of being unconscious, of being out of one"s mind, is the condition of the normal man. Society highly values its normal man. It educates children to lose themselves and to become absurd, and thus to be normal. Normal men have killed perhaps 100,000,000 of their fellow normal men in the last fifty years. Our behaviour is a function of our experience. We act according to the way we see things. If our experience is destroyed, our behaviour will be destructive. If our experience is destroyed, we have lost our own selves. " from R. D. Laings Politics of Experience You all may be normal but if the frame of reference is insane then that doesnt' get you anywhere. A society which is based on exploitation and a status quo which is based on violence to maintain isn't a culture which should be defended.

Yet the current energy production system is based almost entirely on resources which exist in a finite capacity. Running out or resources or turning off and saving the resources, in the end, seem to have the same consequences?

I don't think this is the definition of commune . . . but that's not the point anyway. I'm not against sustainable agricutlre and I don't think Derick Jensen is against it either as long as it's truely sustainable and done in a way which also lets the eco-system be sustainable as well. Ok, how about posting some reference? Humm, sounds kind of like whats already happening. http://local.google.com/local?hl=en&q=hope,+bc&t=k&ll=49.696062,-120.401917&spn=0.516993,1.549072

Hey people , it would be cool if you stopped attacking my subject line and maybe gave a listen to the audio and then attacked the contents of that audio. These points aren't mine, they are Derick Jensen's and I was interested in discussing them not try and have myself a lookup session with all his books trying to proxy between a bunch of random points based on the anti-civ subject line and what he wrote/spoke about.

Interesting point. So you think that the rate of wild habitat destrutcion and killing of wild animals/plants would increase from the rate it already is at if civilization were to end? Where did I say that? Where did Jensen say that? If civilization ended they only people who would have any benefit are those who already knew how to survive off the land in their current locale. I honestly don't know how to do this and I would assume that most hippies on communes don't relly know how to do that either. Its a skill that most of modern civilization has lost even if you say you are for or against that civilization.

What you really have to wonder is how someone who has a loved one who is affected by these diseases isn't able to question the causes of them, techological civilization. I don't have any data on this but it seems the more technocological/advanced/whatever we get the higher the rates of these diseases we have.

Part of the perspective Jensen is bringing to the table is that human population isn't the only population factor which is important or that it's the most important. The salmon populations, the forest populations, all the wild populations are just as important and humans ignoring this fact is what results in a culture which destorys these populations at the expense of all other natural populations. Whether civilization comes down now (with the beneift of keeping the natural populations we have left) or in the future because humans will ultimately destory the very eco-systems which we need (even in spite of technological advancements) to survive. Yes the human population would be drastically lower either way. So are you arguing that techniclogical solutions are the only answer to the fact that technicological soluions causes us to be in this situation in the first place?

CBS, it hasn't been two hours since I posted the link so you obviously haven't listened to it (since it's two hours long). Maybe you give it a listen before talking out your ass.

But if the civilization which supports your climbing lifestyle comes only at the expense of the lives lower in the violence hierarchy than yourself (jensen's idea) and at the expense of the future habitability of the planet would you still be so happy to stick with the status quo?

Very interesting talk by Derrick Jensen about why civilization needs to end. I'm putting this in spray because its not directly related to climbing but definitly related to enviro/access issues. If you're not familiar with his work then this is a good intro. Jensen has been extremely eye-opening for me. http://www.indybay.org/news/2006/04/1814543.php

Crossfit North in Magnuson Park and Crossfit Eastside in Redmond are the only affiliates in the seattle area. Neither of these fulfill all your requirements: Eastside has the time slot and is less than $20 but doesn't have showers and is not in your location. North is in your location but but doesn't have the time, cost, or showers. Maybe someone has something going out of their garage or at a club but I think your going to have a hard time finding a 6am on that.